Film Ferrania's new(ish) website up

Michael Howard · Jul 25, 2023

Just got an email from them with directions to their newly remodeled website. It looks nice, but is somewhat brief. I'm sure they'll flesh it out more as time goes on. There is a notice as well for Kickstarters, we will be notified in the coming weeks of discount options. I've shot about 20 rolls of it so far, and despite a lot of people not liking it because of it's "speed" or "ortho" properties, I quite love the film. At 80 and in HC110, in my workflow, it renders just exactly as I like B&W. It is basically a replacement now for my favorite film of all time, Agfa APX100. I know...it's nothing like it, except almost no grain, but the higher contrast makes me smile. Haven't tried it yet in 120, will soon. The Ortho as well, to see if it's really a different film. It should be very good for the kind of photography I do.
It's still the same website address, filmferrania.com

eyetwist · Jul 25, 2023

One significant change on the new site is regarding the Kickstarter campaign. After years of promises that the backers would see their pledge rewards fulfilled (or at least a credit towards free film), they've finally said nope, not happening, you get nothing but a discount, maybe.

Kickstarter

Explore and purchase our photographic films, capturing the imagination of filmmakers, photographers, and artists worldwide. The film that shaped the history of cinema has returned to tell stories through the art of analog photography. In black and white.

www.filmferrania.com

Michael Howard · Jul 25, 2023

Well, they also offered Kickstarters, a few years ago, P30 Alpha for I think $5 a roll. I got 10, every roll was defect-free (for me at least). I still have 2.

BobD · Jul 25, 2023

14 bucks a roll? Kinda 'spensive.

Ivo Stunga · Jul 26, 2023

Nowadays... When companies invest in image instead of doing their part in serving their kickfarters, and waste money on WEB/PR people/redesigns nobody asked for.

Also - there's slow films by Adox and Rollei for half the price and same-ish grain-free appearance.

railwayman2 · Jul 26, 2023

As a Kickstarter, my main hope (which Ferrania definitely promoted) was not free film or "discounts" but that they would produce a colour slide fim again (as they had done for many years) at a time when the future of such film from Kodak, Fuji and Agfa was looking uncertain

A choice of B&W film has continued to be available from Ilford and Kodak, and, as Ivo Stunga says, Rollei and, particularly, Adox have been able to produce new products at fair prices, I feel that the Ferrania Kickstarter was, at best, misleading.

In the meantime, I no longer have a darkroom, just work with scanned color negs and tranparencies, so good-bye Ferrania.

Prest_400 · Jul 26, 2023

Nice website and with all the stories it seems quite oriented to the modern crowd. I have been watching too many a youtube film video and that's what I would refer to

Thinking of eventually trying P30 in 120. It's a bit expensive but about the same as T-Grain films are priced in Europe nowadays.

It is unfortunate with Kickstarter although as a positive note, the facility was saved and is able to produce film.
Making colour seems a very difficult challenge given the results of the latest entries from the Agfa legacy companies.

Mogens · Jul 26, 2023

Discounts? Discounts? Last update they were promising credits. Evidently they're using their own failure to produce color film as an 'out' and going back on their word. The integrity of a company matters to me as much as their products and these guys are dead to me. There's plenty of other black and white film to use and enjoy.

Steve Roberts · Jul 26, 2023

Welching on the Kickstarter campaign is at best disappointing and at worst a scam. I shan't be patronising Ferrania or getting scammed in any future Kickstarter campaigns (by anyone).

railwayman2 · Jul 27, 2023

Steve Roberts - agreed ! And, thinking about it, in the real business world, viable new projects can almost always be successfully financed by real investors and bank or other loans. I should have realised that asking for Kickstarter donations was a last resort, I normally would have done, but was misled by the indication that colour slide film was almost ready to be easily produced by Ferranis at a time when the long-term future of other makes seemed a bit doubtful.

mshchem · Jul 27, 2023

I have a freezer full of film so not sure I will be buying much P30. Still if these guys are actually coating and confectioning film that's a good thing. Trying to resurrect an old plant is harder than starting fresh, this became obvious as this went on forever.
I say good luck, competition is going to be tough.

faberryman · Jul 27, 2023

mshchem said:
I say good luck, competition is going to be tough.

Particularly at $12.99/roll. Kodak TMax 100 is $10.99/roll. Ilford FP4 is $9.50/roll.

mshchem · Jul 27, 2023

faberryman said:
Particularly at $12.99/roll. Kodak TMax 100 is $10.99/roll. Ilford FP4 is $9.50/roll.

So true. And if you want cinema film Kodak makes that too.

warden · Jul 27, 2023

eyetwist said:
One significant change on the new site is regarding the Kickstarter campaign. After years of promises that the backers would see their pledge rewards fulfilled (or at least a credit towards free film), they've finally said nope, not happening, you get nothing but a discount, maybe.

Kickstarter

Explore and purchase our photographic films, capturing the imagination of filmmakers, photographers, and artists worldwide. The film that shaped the history of cinema has returned to tell stories through the art of analog photography. In black and white.

www.filmferrania.com

It will be interesting to hear from backers what kind of discount they are offered relative to the amount of their original donations. I would imagine they will vary quite a bit depending on the amount of support offered back in 2014.

twelvetone12 · Jul 27, 2023

warden said:
what kind of discount they are offered

LOL my guess is a pat in the back, I'm a backer (and I DID update my data last time they asked before anybody feels the need to remind me that maybe I didn't) and they did not even bother to update us on kickstarter, I discovered that page trough this post. Last time I did not redeem my credits because I wanted to support the project further, so I willingly took the risk and sincerely I'm not upset at all. I just wish they would have spent less time talking about the credits or whatever that was going to happen soon. Or as we say in italian, menare il can per l'aia per tutto questo tempo.

cmacd123 · Jul 29, 2023

I am really surprised at all the "Debbie DOwners" on this thread. Film Ferrania DID survive, they have launched SOME products and they are at the point where they are shipping direactly to at least a few countries.

yes, they are only making some B&W film so far, BUT the films they are offering ar Unique and not replicated inb the Market, NOT repacked Aero film, Not repacked Movie Stock, not some other brands film sold under a cute name. Instead they have in effect replicated a film right out of the 1960s - which does a different look than ANY body eleses film.

yes, I tossed in a hundreed bucks to the original Kickstarter, and yes I tried to place a 200 dollar order for a few rolls of film last week, only to discover that they are not yet shipping to Canada. If I get something monitary from the kickstarter pledge, I will smile, BUT I am just glad that we seem to have the start of another location that is making (not reselling) photographic film.

Andrew O'Neill · Jul 30, 2023

As far as I'm concerned, Ferrania fulfilled their Kickstarter pledge. They saved machinery from the knacker yard, and are producing film inhouse. One day they will produce colour film for you colour folks. I've got several rolls of 120 P30 waiting for me in my fridge in Canada. Waiting for some 35mm Orto, too!

eyetwist · Jul 31, 2023

As others have written, Film Ferrania did save essential production equipment on the back of the Kickstarter backers with $322K+ raised. However, they didn't run a Gofundme campaign, they ran a Kickstarter with reward incentives to raise a bigger number. Does anyone think they would have raised $322K with an incentive-less Gofundme campaign? Not a chance.

As with any Kickstarter, there is a risk of project failure and backers may not receive the rewards attached to their pledge. Even though they haven't produced color film (yet), the FF factory was saved and the company is now producing two types of film in various formats for commercial sale - its a real stretch for FF to claim the Kickstarter was a failure. I am of the opinion that Film Ferrania has a responsibility to deliver rewards to the Kickstarter backers that meaningfully reflects the value of the original pledge/reward. In my case, I pledged $190 with a backer reward of 10 rolls of color 120 slide film. If they gave me 10 rolls of 120 B&W film, I'd be satisfied - this is more or less what the previously announced "credits" program was supposed to provide.

My primary complaint is Film Ferrania's ever evolving story on how the rewards would be fulfilled. First, it was rewards are coming as promised, its just taking longer to do. Then it changed to backers receiving credits in the amount of their original pledge to use in the FF online store - said credits never arrived. Now, its reduced to a "Kickstarter backer discount" if you buy film only from the FF online shop in Italy which charges extortionate shipping to the USA (eg, $45 for 2 rolls of 35mm).

Is it a good thing the factory was saved and now appears to be on its way to being a viable business? Of course.

Is this latest change in policy toward the Kickstarter backers (without whom the factory would have been scrapped) disappointing? You bet.

So I'll wait some more and see what sort of discount I'm actually offered on 120 film. Hopefully it will more than offset the very high cost of shipping from Italy vs. simply ordering at regular retail prices from a distributor in the USA - FPP, Freestyle, Blue Moon, etc.

cmacd123 · Jul 31, 2023

eyetwist said:
So I'll wait some more and see what sort of discount I'm actually offered on 120 film. Hopefully it will more than offset the very high cost of shipping from Italy vs. simply ordering at regular retail prices from a distributor in the USA - FPP, Freestyle, Blue Moon, etc.

I found out today that they have opened shipping to Canada, at 75 dollars an order, But the site was out of 120.

I will trust that they will set up another shipping point at some time. It is always tricky for a manufacturer or distributor to balance direct sales without offending their retail sellers. (who also have to make some money to make it worthwhile)

I did get a couple of rolls of 35mm ORTO from Ultrafine. who charges US11.95 a roll. direct from Italy it is 18.00 CDN so ultrafine is 15.76 CDN FOB California. and they want about 40 US to ship to me. either option is only ecconmical if you want a dozzen rolls each of all three varieties at this point. I have been buying some P30 in dribs and drabs every few months form other suppliers, at least half to ensure the factory gets some oxygen to live.

warden · Jul 31, 2023

eyetwist said:
. Does anyone think they would have raised $322K with an incentive-less Gofundme campaign?

Maybe? Probably? I don’t know but it sounds feasible, and perhaps they should have gone that route instead of the way they did.

As to the rest of your complaints, I agree. And I hope they can make you happy. Your $190 did some good for them so I hope they return the favor.

mshchem · Jul 31, 2023

Think how much money the local, Italian and EU governments have sunk into the Ferrania venture. I would be shocked if the films being produced are making any kind of profit???

I can't help but hope that the market continues to rebound, keep these people going. Color film will not happen. No way.

cmacd123 · Jul 31, 2023

mshchem said:
Color film will not happen. No way.

one issue was at the time of the Kickstarter, we were seeing a danger of ALL colour film becoming unavailable. I recall one coment from someone saying that they would prefer ektachrome to Scotch Chrome, BUT that they would perfer Scotch chrome to not having any chrome film at all. (scotch chrome being the last slide film the old Ferrania company made, and the kickstarter rewards were suposed to be one last batch of Scotch chrome made from existing chemicals and converted in the old factory before the Landlord stated knocking excess buildings down. A comedy of Miscommunication got in the way, and the old chemicals went bad.

trying to sell a rendition of Scotch Chrome 100 while E100D is available is unlikly to be worthwhile. WHERE they COULD have a niche, would be if they could still produce the "special" slide film that 3M used to make, up to 640 T if I remember correctly. This try to produce something that the market does not offer, is likly why we have seen P30 - totally unique - as an early target. if they tried to market say a TRI-X clone, they would get little traction. My guess is that we may see more B&W products before any colour. One of the Founders is a Movie production Buff, and the videos have already hinted at P30 in 16mm. Recall also that the first idea was before the Kickstarter was to ship the 16mm perforating equipment to some low wage place in eastern Europe and convert stock made by Fuji for 16mm Cameras. some of the retired 3M folks persuaded them that their was a plan to rebuild a small scale factory from bits and pieces of the old factory.

in that context, ORTO is likely a leaning experience to verify that the information that they have on colour sensitvity dyes isindeed acurate. that information does have application to the bigger problem of eventually making colour film. Having a B&W product that they can produce, they can then tinker with other formats. Having the ability to convert 35mm film, and make 35mm casettesfrom scratch, they could even do toll converting for another maker if the opportunity arose.

it will be interesting, and I m hoping thet they do well.

MultiFormat Shooter · Aug 1, 2023

cmacd123 said:
It will be interesting, and I'm hoping they they do well.

So do I. I agree that they (very) likely cannot compete against Fuji and Kodak in the traditional E-6 film market. However, niche emulsions like the 640T you mentioned, or 800 speed daylight E-6 film could do well, for them.

Rudeofus · Aug 6, 2023

I have heard from a B&W film maker some years ago: we could make a product immediately, but there's no chance we could compete with Kodak's prices. As long as Kodak has these prices, we just won't make film.

There's a good chance, that Film Ferrania operates the same way. When they started their kickstarter campaign, Kodak had just discontinued their slide film offerings and Fuji's offerings were in the ropes. Ferrania could have charged 30$/roll, and we slide shooters would have kissed their feet. Now Kodak's back in town with their E100, and Fuji sometimes still has Velvia and Provia. Sadly, color film is a product, which really favors large outfits.

eyetwist · Sep 20, 2023

Received an email from Film Ferrania regarding a "discount" as a Kickstarter backer in lieu of the various rewards they've been promising for 10 years.

It's a 30% discount, but when combined with their extortionate shipping rates ($55 for 10 35mm rolls to the USA, for example), it's still much cheaper to buy P30 in the USA directly from Freestyle, Blue Moon, FPP, etc. The discount is also only good thru the end of the year.

Nice way of never having to fulfill anything or deliver on a promise - offer a worthless discount, wash your hands of the problem.

Film Ferrania's new(ish) website up

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