Is there any problem in developing films at lower temperature (61ºF) in your experience beside the need to develop it for more time?
Film developing at relative low temperature
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OP
OP
Thank you so much for your information. It’s that I found many of my pictures from a roll of Ultrafine Finesse 400 were too dark using HC-110 dilution B; and wanted to rule out the developer temperature. Perhaps it is a problem with my camera meter (Nikon FE).
I processed some very high contrast duplicating film to continuous tone by using 18C. To do that I put crushed ice in the extra bottles of my Jobo. Thing is, I had to keep replacing the ice on a regular basis, I used up all the ice from my wife's kitchen ice maker during the process. Overall it was not worth it (using that film as continuous tone that is).
Yes, my Jobo has the cold-water inlet, but my cold water is about 20C from the tap.
Yes, my Jobo has the cold-water inlet, but my cold water is about 20C from the tap.
Just measured mine and it was 4°C. I'm sure it would get colder if I let it run a bit longer. I have seen 0.5°C previously.
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I feel like there are some parts of the story that would help to hear:
How much time did you develop? What stop bath did you use?
Did you accidentally mix too strong. Did you mix at 1:7 from concentrate (supposed to be stock) vs 1:31 from concentrate.
When did you start/stop the clock? Did you pre-rinse?
How dark are the negatives anyway can you snap a photo of them with your phone to show them?
I just processed a roll of Acros 100 in HC110 Dil:B and another of HP5+ in Dil:H.
Dev temp was about 63F for both, so I extended the time by about 20% longer than the normal 68F times for each dilution. Both rolls came out fine.
I extended fixing times and wash times a bit longer also.
At 61F I'd probably add another 5-10% to the dev time, but getting below 60F I'd look at bringing up the chemical temps a bit with a warm water bath.
With lower developer temps, I'd expect thin negatives (underdevelopment) to be the risk, rather than denser negatives.
Dev temp was about 63F for both, so I extended the time by about 20% longer than the normal 68F times for each dilution. Both rolls came out fine.
I extended fixing times and wash times a bit longer also.
At 61F I'd probably add another 5-10% to the dev time, but getting below 60F I'd look at bringing up the chemical temps a bit with a warm water bath.
With lower developer temps, I'd expect thin negatives (underdevelopment) to be the risk, rather than denser negatives.
OP
OP
Thank you for your interest in helping me further. Here are the answers to your questions:
How much time did you develop? 15:20 min.
What stop bath did you use? water
Did you accidentally mix too strong. I don’t think so. I believe I put 10 ml of concentrate + 290 ml of water.
Did you mix at 1:7 from concentrate (supposed to be stock) vs 1:31 from concentrate. I only use concentrate, no stock solution.
When did you start/stop the clock? after I filled the tank
Did you pre-rinse? no
How dark are the negatives anyway can you snap a photo of them with your phone to show them? see attached picture
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Those negs look quite thin, but why are there no edge numbers?
OP
OP
I developed that roll for 15:20min. The normal development time at 68ºF is 7 minutes.
OP
OP
It might be because it was from a bulk roll. I don’t know who is the manufacturer for these Ultrafine Finesse films.
It's fomapan 400.
Your negatives look underexposed to me. I see areas of decent density where the film received sufficient exposure, suggesting development was in the ballpark alright. Just not enough light
This film tends to not quite reach its box speed - by a long shot in fact. Try rating it at 200, and carefully meter important shadows. It also pays to make yourself very familiar with how the light meter on your camera works and what its strengths and weaknesses are. Center weighted meters like on your FE are easily thrown off by bright highlights, fooling the camera into thinking the scene is lighter than it really is.
OP
OP
Thank you for your evaluation. I agree with your evaluation. Formerly I had used Fomapan 400 and exposed it to ISO 320 with good results. So, if UF Finesse is actually Fomapan 400, then I can use all the information available for it regarding the different dilutions and developers. I’ll try next roll using TFX-2 that I have had very good experience with Fomapan 400.
Didn't Aparat do a test of Fomapan 400 and found that it's real speed was about 160? Nowhere near 400 anyway.
Looking at the contrast of the outdoor scenes where the sky is dense and the people walking are very thin, I think you have both underexposed and overdeveloped.
I looked up the Massive development chart and it suggests 7 min in HC-110 dilution B @ 68°F. Using the Kodak darkroom databook, that should translate to 10 min at 61°F.
Looking at the contrast of the outdoor scenes where the sky is dense and the people walking are very thin, I think you have both underexposed and overdeveloped.
I looked up the Massive development chart and it suggests 7 min in HC-110 dilution B @ 68°F. Using the Kodak darkroom databook, that should translate to 10 min at 61°F.
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Yes, and he also did a test where he found that Fomapan 400 and Ultrafine Finesse 400 behave in eerily similar/identical ways.
This film should be capable of 320 in Fomadon Excel (= Kodak XTOL). In other developers its effective speed hovers around 200 - 250 or so, if memory serves. This is according to the film's actual datasheet. Individual testing may yield yet other numbers. 160 is certainly within the ballpark for what this film really does in developers like e.g. rodinal. Not sure where HC110 would be on the map.
OP
OP
I don’t think this film is really ISO 160 as you indicated. The attached picture shows a roll of Finesse 400 shot at ISO 400 using an Olympus Point & Shot IS-1. The roll was developed with HC-110 dil. B at 62.5ºF for 9 minutes. Some of the pictures were shot with the camera flash in the P mode. No compensation was used in any of them. These negatives were much better than the ones I got with my Nikon FE.
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A roll of film exposed quite randomly generally doesn't allow for drawing conclusions about the performance of a film/developer combination. Most of the images on this roll, furthermore, appear to be fairly weak in terms of shadow detail, to put it mildly
It's kind of boring/tedious, but the kind of testing @ic-racer alludes at is a more thorough way to arrive at more reliable conclusions about effective film speed.
In any case, underexposure certainly is part of the problem you reported here. Several factors can influence this and the film performing not quite as you might expect is just one of them. Let me put it differently: if you shoot another roll of this film while exposing it as if it's a 200 film, and you still run into exposure problems, that's a pretty firm clue that you have some other causes playing a role as well. I think you'll find this to be the case, if I'm honest.
OP
OP
No, I have no idea of that test. Can you tell?
OP
OP
Yes
Yes, I think I have a problem with my Nikon FE exposure meter that I need to assess.
A roll of film exposed quite randomly generally doesn't allow for drawing conclusions about the performance of a film/developer combination. Most of the images on this roll, furthermore, appear to be fairly weak in terms of shadow detail, to put it mildly
It's kind of boring/tedious, but the kind of testing @ic-racer alludes at is a more thorough way to arrive at more reliable conclusions about effective film speed.
In any case, underexposure certainly is part of the problem you reported here. Several factors can influence this and the film performing not quite as you might expect is just one of them. Let me put it differently: if you shoot another roll of this film while exposing it as if it's a 200 film, and you still run into exposure problems, that's a pretty firm clue that you have some other causes playing a role as well. I think you'll find this to be the case, if I'm honest.
Yes, I think I have a problem with my Nikon FE exposure meter that I need to assess.
This test lets you know if you are under or over-exposing your film. Do this test before testing for development time.
Expose a uniform target to zone I. To do this put the ISO dial on 400* and stop down FOUR STOPS. Make the exposure and process it as you are doing. It should be a faint gray frame. Place the exposed and developed frame over the meter and see if it drops the exposure by 1/3 of a stop compared to clear film with no exposure**. If so, your exposure index is 400. If not, check 100 and 200,
*You can do multiple tests on a single roll. Test for ISO 100, 200, 400 to start.
** 1/3 stop = 0.10 Log D
Expose a uniform target to zone I. To do this put the ISO dial on 400* and stop down FOUR STOPS. Make the exposure and process it as you are doing. It should be a faint gray frame. Place the exposed and developed frame over the meter and see if it drops the exposure by 1/3 of a stop compared to clear film with no exposure**. If so, your exposure index is 400. If not, check 100 and 200,
*You can do multiple tests on a single roll. Test for ISO 100, 200, 400 to start.
** 1/3 stop = 0.10 Log D
When I do my zone 1 film test, I set my meter at 1/2 of the film's iso speed and then take 4 exposures with the following neutral density gelatin filters. #1 no filter, #2 .1 nd. #3 .2 nd. #4 .3 nd. This means if I am using iso 100 film I have settings for 50, 64, 80 and 100. I also do a set of zone 8 exposures the same way to test for development time. My aim point for "my darkroom" is 1.24 for zone 8 and .1 for zone 1 Once you get zone 1 and 8 dialed in it is easy. Most films do not clock in at box speed so don't be alarmed if your 400 speed film comes out at 250. The most common mistake when starting out is under exposing and over developing. My most important test for me is my zone 8 test. After that it goes pretty fast.
@ Skywalker, Is there a reason that you are using these low temperatures? You didn't state your reason.
OP
OP
Thank you for the explanation. I will try it. But I will need a card toned to zone one first. I guess it can be found in eBay.
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