Has anyone ever added any hardener to their bw film developer solution? I have some very soft emulsion film that scrathes really easily but I don't know if adding hardener will effect the developer at all. Has anyone ever added hardener to their film developer solution and if so what and how much? Thanks for any insight you can give me. I am aware that pyro developers add some hardening to the emulsion but I dont have any at the moment.
Film Developer with Hardener?
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Have a look at tropical film developers they usually incorporate a hardener, as they were dsigned for old fashioned emulsions at higher than normal temperatures. They probably aren't very fine grained developers.
There's no reason why you couldn't add a very small amout of formalin (formaldehyde solution) to a normal film developer used one shot.
Ian
There's no reason why you couldn't add a very small amout of formalin (formaldehyde solution) to a normal film developer used one shot.
Ian
Photographers Formulary has a film developer with hardener. I hope to be trying it this weekend.
The pyrogallol developers are supposed to have a hardening effect on the emulsion.
I can't be scientific about it, but I have noticed much less problems with handling the negs since I started using Pyrocat-HD film developer. Just another option for you...
- Thom
I can't be scientific about it, but I have noticed much less problems with handling the negs since I started using Pyrocat-HD film developer. Just another option for you...
- Thom
Thanks for the responses everyone. I think I can get around this problem with little issue. I think I will do pyro in the future for this film but for now I may add a touch of hardener to my developer and see what happens. My current film dev is tmax rs and its reused so I dont know if formalin will work if its a one shot deal. The thing is I have a bottle from 10 years ago that just says "hardener" on it. I wonder what it could be in there?
We manufacture developers with hardener in them for Aerial and Xray processing. These processors are "roller transport". The developers are very high energy to compensate for the hardener and the film emulsions are typically soft. Hand processing and photographic films do not need this level of exotic chemistry. If you need a more sophisticated answer, contact me.
I have sucessfully used Kodak Prehardener SH-5 prior to development in the past. (I Used SH-5 to preharden E4 IR Ektachrome that I then processed in E6 chemistry).
SH-5 is based on 37% Formaldehyde (a Hazmat).
I develop Efke 100 and Efke 25 in Pyrocat-HD with no hardener or prehardener and I have no problems with emulsion damage. The Pyrocat tans the emulsion and that may help. More important - I've learned how to handle film without scratching the emulsion.
SH-5 is based on 37% Formaldehyde (a Hazmat).
I develop Efke 100 and Efke 25 in Pyrocat-HD with no hardener or prehardener and I have no problems with emulsion damage. The Pyrocat tans the emulsion and that may help. More important - I've learned how to handle film without scratching the emulsion.
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Could be alum I guess. It's what makes pickles crisp. A humorous side note: we have in West Virginia two neighboring townships, one named Alum Bridge and the other Pickle Street. I have always wondered if the folks in Pickle Street used alum from Alum Bridge to make their pickles.
bottled hardener
Could be almost anything, but, if it's a Kodak package it's probably hardener for Kodak Rapid Fixer and it is something you do not want to add to any developer.
Could be almost anything, but, if it's a Kodak package it's probably hardener for Kodak Rapid Fixer and it is something you do not want to add to any developer.
Alum cannot be used in alkaline solution. The alum will have either no effect or will precipitate out.
PE
PE
Might be a hardener for a rapid fixer. You can still buy hardener for rapid fix today. It needs an acidic environment though, and that you won't get in a developer. Check the label. If you see aluminium sulphate or ammonium alum as one of the ingredients, that's what it is. Don't use it in your developer.
Kodak Prehardener SH-5 for high temperature processing
Water 900ml
0.5% solution of Kodak Anti-Fog No. 2 (6-Nitrobenzimidazole nitrate) 40ml
Sodium Sulfate, dessicated 50 grams
Sodium Carbonate monohydrated 12 grams
Add cold water to make 1.0 liter
Just before use add Formaldehyde (37% solution) 5ml
The entire bath, with the exception if the Formaldehyde may be kept as a stock solution. Add 5ml of 37% Formaldehyde just before use and mix thoroughly.
For use:
SH-5 Prehardener............... 10 minutes
Rinse in Water....................30 seconds
Develop in customary developer.....
Prepare a 0.5% solution of Kodak Anti-Fog No. 2 (6-Nitrobenzimidazole nitrate) by dissolving 1 gram of 6-Nitrobenzimidazole nitrate in 200ml distilled water.
Water 900ml
0.5% solution of Kodak Anti-Fog No. 2 (6-Nitrobenzimidazole nitrate) 40ml
Sodium Sulfate, dessicated 50 grams
Sodium Carbonate monohydrated 12 grams
Add cold water to make 1.0 liter
Just before use add Formaldehyde (37% solution) 5ml
The entire bath, with the exception if the Formaldehyde may be kept as a stock solution. Add 5ml of 37% Formaldehyde just before use and mix thoroughly.
For use:
SH-5 Prehardener............... 10 minutes
Rinse in Water....................30 seconds
Develop in customary developer.....
Prepare a 0.5% solution of Kodak Anti-Fog No. 2 (6-Nitrobenzimidazole nitrate) by dissolving 1 gram of 6-Nitrobenzimidazole nitrate in 200ml distilled water.
One more warning:
Formaldehyde
POISON! DANGER! SUSPECT CANCER HAZARD. MAY CAUSE CANCER. Risk of cancer depends on level and duration of exposure. VAPOR HARMFUL. HARMFUL IF INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN. CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. STRONG SENSITIZER. MAY BE FATAL OR CAUSE BLINDNESS IF SWALLOWED. CANNOT BE MADE NONPOISONOUS. FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR.
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/F5522.htm
Formaldehyde
POISON! DANGER! SUSPECT CANCER HAZARD. MAY CAUSE CANCER. Risk of cancer depends on level and duration of exposure. VAPOR HARMFUL. HARMFUL IF INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN. CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. STRONG SENSITIZER. MAY BE FATAL OR CAUSE BLINDNESS IF SWALLOWED. CANNOT BE MADE NONPOISONOUS. FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR.
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/F5522.htm
Yes formaldehyde is hazardous, but the exposure level photographers would be exposed to is minuscule in comparison to Doctors, biologist etc who regulary dissect animals (in the case of doctors humans) preserved in formaldehyde.
Simple precautions like safety glasses, protective clothing, gloves and good ventilation when handling 37% solutions of formaldehyde are obviously important. Once diluted in a working hardener or developer the hazard diminishes, but care with ventilation is still important.
Ian
Simple precautions like safety glasses, protective clothing, gloves and good ventilation when handling 37% solutions of formaldehyde are obviously important. Once diluted in a working hardener or developer the hazard diminishes, but care with ventilation is still important.
Ian
A simpler prehardener is as follows:
Water 800 ml
Sodium Sulfate 100 g
Sodium Carbonate 50 g
Formalin (37%) 10 ml
Water to 1 L
Use for 1 minute at 85 deg F then wash for 1 min at 85 deg F.
Soft films can be processed from 68 deg to 100 F with this, but the higher temperatures may require up to 5 mins to fully harden. Don't forget to wash after hardening.
PE
Water 800 ml
Sodium Sulfate 100 g
Sodium Carbonate 50 g
Formalin (37%) 10 ml
Water to 1 L
Use for 1 minute at 85 deg F then wash for 1 min at 85 deg F.
Soft films can be processed from 68 deg to 100 F with this, but the higher temperatures may require up to 5 mins to fully harden. Don't forget to wash after hardening.
PE
Why do you need a hardener? You said easy to scratch, but when? While organizing films and printing? If so, hardener won't do anything.
Hardeners used in any stage of processing may increase wet strength of the gelatin layer but they dont change the dry mechanical strength at all.
Hardeners like SH-5 is unnecessary for manual processing of modern pictorial materials.
Hardeners used in any stage of processing may increase wet strength of the gelatin layer but they dont change the dry mechanical strength at all.
Hardeners like SH-5 is unnecessary for manual processing of modern pictorial materials.
Not too bad for giving a warning for using this stuff
A very good ventilation is really necessary when using this (nasty) stuff.
Hardener is not necessary with all modern emulsions unless you're developing on tropical temperatures or/and a roller system. You can add it when using liquid "magic light" on all kind of porous materials.
Best regards,
Robert
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