Pixophrenic
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"Retro" is a marketing term.
It was a good decision, as after I searched forums for the first film I was going to develop in it, Rollei Retro 80S, I found that Xtol is not the one for it. Another disaster was prevented.
Pixophrenic, perhaps you can tell us the sources of info that led you to conclude that Xtol and Rollei are a disastrous combination?
pentaxuser
I try to use Rollei Retro 80s solely on cloudy days. I have used it in situations with that have a lot of contrast and for those I have gotten good results with stand developing using Rodinal 1:100 for 45 minutes with some agitation after about 22 minutes.
+1
And X-Tol will work really well.
"Retro" is a marketing term. No less, and no more.
There are differences between films and between developers, but the differences in results will be more subtle than significant.
I am not sure I quite understand the sarcasm, but citing Barry Thornton: "I experimented with various combinations of these three chemicals, and also tried all the proprietary high definition developers. Success…and then they change the films! Just when I had the optimum balance, they changed the films! Old faithful Ilford FP3 became FP4..." Maybe I have not made myself clear. There is talk about "thin emulsions" and "think emulsions". Obviously, high speed films are generally thicker than lower speed of the same manufacturer. But Delta 100 versus FP4 I am not sure which one is thicker. It is not about two-bath developers, it is that films changed over time, and now we have "old" and "new" alongside.
None are retro. If "retro" is in the name it is marketing for hipsters who goes on and on about film grain and what else hipsters are getting on film scans. If you want retro look print it on old FB paper. Pan F+, HP5+ and FH4+ will do for negatives. Fifty years old paper (FB) is still printable and possible to find. I'm getting "retro" comments all the time.
I am indeed looking for collective knowledge, but obviously "retro" triggered wrong associations, and it's not my fault. I am also not specifically focused on bashing Xtol, just searched this forum for "retro 80S" and found very little, but among those one negative experience. Rollei Retro 80S is just a film name and it is not a "lomographic" film, quite the contrary, it is very sharp and was repurposed from aerial surveillance. It has many qualities that I like. I expected somebody would explain why it is called "classic" and which films, in comparison, are considered most "contemporary". I am going to stay with this film, and eventually find out the developer that preferably can be made at home from common components (though not Caffenol) and gives strong enough compensating effect. I promise to come back with my positive experiences about this film that are worth sharing.Pixophrenic, I'd say that your evidence for Xtol and Rollei being a recipe for disaster is, as you admit, limited and may well be wrong. I think those whose replies may seem acerbic may be replying that way because they are questioning whether you are looking for APUG's collective knowledge with an open enough mind.
Try postponing any decisions on films and developers until you have got a large range of information. Can I suggest you try a search for Rollei and Xtol and secondly it may be more useful for you to start a thread specifically asking for knowledge and experiences from those who have used Rollei and Xtol.
Open questions usually produce answers which are most useful. Again ask for information and explanations covering "trad" cubic grain and T-grain films, neither of which is retro. I am unsure that retro is a helpful word in getting the answers you need.
pentaxuser
I am so grateful to you guys. This forum is worth a thousand expensive books. Most importantly, it is contemporary. It has been quite informative to peruse some of the past threads, especially the very long one about somewhat futile attempts to produce "liquid Xtol" (98430-improved-version-ds-10-ryuji-suzuki.html). Armed with a pocket scale, however, one is able to make up many excellent one-shot formulas in about 15 minutes. Crawley's FX-55 is one such developer: stripped of unnecessary components, it makes for a usable compensating developer, which at 1X works for about a weekend and not a lot of chemicals are dumped into the sink. I'd say standard Caffenol, which uses about 50 g/l soda ash, is more pollution than that. Lately, vising one of Toronto shops, carrying an extensive palette of chemicals from Kodak and Ilford, I scratched my head for some time over a huge double package of Xtol ( now labeled "for industrial use") and finally decided to hold off. It was a good decision, as after I searched forums for the first film I was going to develop in it, Rollei Retro 80S, I found that Xtol is not the one for it. Another disaster was prevented. It is also my impression that during the 1990s and the next decade a lot of research went into producing liquid concentrates that would eventually replace the venerable D-76/ID-11. It is something of a paradox that today it is impossible to ship some liquid chemicals cross border (except for special arrangements). So retro-style developers containing catechol and/or pyrogallol are largely confined to the countries within which they are produced, and most or all "modern" developers are mimics of Microphen, except they are liquid concentrates. Correct me, if I am wrong. So here comes the question. When a new developer is introduced, it is assumed that it will work with all films. However, from a simple encounter with Rollei Retro 80S, one can conclude that there are classes of films that may develop similarly only within a class. So, which current films are "retro" and which are not?
A much better name for it would then be "Rollei Repurposed 80S".I am indeed looking for collective knowledge, but obviously "retro" triggered wrong associations, and it's not my fault. I am also not specifically focused on bashing Xtol, just searched this forum for "retro 80S" and found very little, but among those one negative experience. Rollei Retro 80S is just a film name and it is not a "lomographic" film, quite the contrary, it is very sharp and was repurposed from aerial surveillance. It has many qualities that I like. I expected somebody would explain why it is called "classic" and which films, in comparison, are considered most "contemporary". I am going to stay with this film, and eventually find out the developer that preferably can be made at home from common components (though not Caffenol) and gives strong enough compensating effect. I promise to come back with my positive experiences about this film that are worth sharing.
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