Film camera prices: Going up or down?

[TheFlyingCamera]

I remember this quote from the front of McKeown's Price Guide to Used Cameras:

"The value of a camera is the price decided upon by the buyer and the seller at the time of the sale"

That's the simplest definition of fair market value I've seen. It is wise words to keep in mind when shopping for used gear. And because there is no standard for what that price is or should be, you should only buywhat you WANT, at a price you are willing to pay, with no thought to future appreciation or depreciation, especially if you are planning to use it. Even with collectible cars, the appreciation curve normally does not kick in until they have been out of production for twenty years or so. The appreciation is steepest when the car is used only enough to prevent mechanical failure; any ACTUAL use will prevent it from attaining maximum resale value.

The relevance of this to your used camera question is: if you think you are going to buy a user camera now, put some serious mileage through the film gate, and see an appreciation in two or five or some other period of years, you're placing a fools bet - you will be lucky to see it hold value. I would feel I got far more than my money's worth if I used the camera and used it hard, even if I didn't sell any prints from images I made with it, than I would feel if I bought it, kept it safe under a bell jar, and sold it for more than I paid for it.

 

[celluloidpropaganda]

I was surprised to find that F5s (and especially F100s) are in the range where I can afford one. I don't have any idea what I'd use an F5 for right now (so large, so very very large), but it's tempting to get one just because I couldn't have considered buying one four or five years ago. It would be smarter to get an EOS 3, but I've still got a Nikon 50/1.8 sitting around here somewhere...

Unfortunately, some of the other high-end SLRs that I look at are holding steady out of my range - FM3A, Pentax MZ-S, Contax RTS-III, really nice OM-4Tis

 

[film_guy]

Prices are going down, but on certain items like Leica RF and lenses, prices are staying stable. I'm still waiting on the Leica M7 and a 50mm Noctilux to become affordable.

 

[ehparis]

I buy equipment today that I want or need today at today's prices. Worrying about what the price might be a year from now strikes me as irrelevant. If I were a collector I might feel differently. I'm a photographer.

 

[JBrunner]

Concerning used user gear (not collectable)I think it is very specific to supply and demand. Some things are going down and some are going up, and it is totally relevant to trends in buying. Gold dot Dagors, as great as they are, are currently totally overpriced, while large format monorail cameras are currently a bargain.

Allot of MF gear has been dumped, but as the closets of the photographers who've switched become emptied out, I would expect the prices of MF gear to rise.

Outside of the large market, incredible bargains can be had from estate sales, classifieds, garage sales, etc. from persons who have no idea what they have, and are gleeful that they found some sucker who would give them a few bucks for it. I used to feel a little guilty picking up $300 lenses for $25 but I got over it.

 

[Brac]

In the UK magazine "Amateur Photographer" a leading advertiser has for several weeks had all its Nikon autofocus SLR stock listed as "To Clear" so F5 bodies are £299-£399, F4S is £249, F100 is £299, F90X & F80 are £99 etc etc. On ebay F90X seem to go for around £55 or less. These prices are considerably less than a few months ago. But as someone has mentioned, trying to get a bargain Nikon lens is quite difficult.

The position is not helped by the fact that several UK Police forces are unloading significant quantities of Nikon manual & autofocus bodies onto the market (but not usually the lenses) plus medium format Mamiya, Bronica & Pentax equipment and in the case of medium format equipment many lenses as well.

 

[jmal]

A little late, but I bought my FM2n in black from KEH a little over a year ago for $265, EX+. Now they are $429. That is an incredible increase if you ask me. If I were to buy now, I would choose something different. I am very happy with the camera, but $429 is too much. Olympus OM1 MD's are selling for $163 with a 50mm lens in EX. For my purposes, that would be just fine, although I know nothing about the Zuiko lenses compared to Nikkor. I've even considered buying one for a sceond camera to carry with a different film.

Jmal

 

[kjsphoto]

It seems the lenses are going up but the bodies are dropping. I just sold a ton of 35 MM gear and all the lenses sold for almost what I paid for them. The bodies, well I cant even talk about as it makes me feel a little sick, lol

 

[tleirtro]

I A recent trip to Barcelona revealed two extremely well stocked photographic outlets with lots of classic film based gear and consumables along side their digital solutions.

Do you happen to have the names of these outlets? I'm going to Barcelona next week.

 

[Robint]

Increase in lense prices

Quality lenses are increasing in price because digital users have discovered them. With the smaller lense to chip distance most lenses can be used with an adapter on a dslr. Two year ago mf lenses were cheap, now prices are sky rocketing.
The bodies were real cheap because most people jumped on the digital band wagon. Soon though they will become collecter items.

Robin

 

[Steve S]

Photo Shops In Barcelona

Do you happen to have the names of these outlets? I'm going to Barcelona next week.

ARPI can be found at the bottom end of Ramblas (Coast end). Do not be fooled by the small frontage. The entrance is at the side and there are 4 floors accessible by elevator.
Foto Casanova (we love photography right?) is on Carrer Pelai which branches off Placa Catalunya and the second hand gear is on the second floor.
Have a great time in Barcelona; a great city.
Steve

 

[lens_hacker]

Certain cameras, Rangefinders and manual focus pro-quality cameras, seem to be going up. A year ago I bought a bargain grade F3HP for $90 from KEH. Good LCD and accurate meter. Prices are up from that!

 

[Nick Zentena]

So I glanced at KEH this morning for the first time in I guess six months. Are prices up across the board or is it my memory?

Outside of one medium format lens I swear everything I glanced at seemed quite a bit more. 35mm and LF.

 

[PhotoJim]

Some prices are stable. Some are up. We may be just past the bottom point.

I'm glad I got my F3, F4, F5 & F801s/N8008s when I did.

 

[JBrunner]

Some prices are stable. Some are up. We may be just past the bottom point.

I'm glad I got my F3, F4, F5 & F801s/N8008s when I did.

I'm not seeing near as many bargain "film is dead so I need to sell this thing while I can" uber deals as I did a year ago. Locally those unloading their film stuff seem to be selling it at prices that reflect the usability and condition of the particular set up. I did snag a primo K1000 with lens for $30 about a month ago.

 

[marsbars]

I would have to say that from my chair the prices seem to be stable on bodies, if not falling a little. I only look for nikon stuff so I can't comment on other gear. But as far as nikon glass, that stuff is starting to get out of this world. A good example would be the 50mm 1.8 that I bought about 7 months ago. I paid about 75 bucks for a near mint example and now they are up quite a bit for the most part. There are still deals to be had but not like a year ago.
I will also agree on the point that worrying about the market if you are a user is just another way to give yourself an ulcer.

 

[Bobby Ironsights]

I think there is something missing in this analysis, how compatible are the old stuff with new digital.

I find excellent deals because I shoot Canon FD and FL. Prices are so low, it's just criminal.

But FD/FL glass can't really be used with digital, because of the very short register distance. You need to have an adaptor with glass in it or put the rear element INSIDE the camera body.

Nikon glass however, is somewhat compatible....not good.

So I was suprised when I read that a nikon f1.8 normal prime goes for 75 bucks!!!
If I started buying FL/FD 1.8 primes for 10 dollars plus shipping, I would end up with a sack of them in short order. Snowball fight anyone?

Hell, I wouldn't expect to pay more than 75 for a 1.4 prime FD/FL.

 

[BobbyR]

It depends on the camera you use, but good lens of any type are going up, or at least NOT going down.
I have noticed that people do not want to pay big prices for 300 f2.8 lens and often the item gets pulled, as did a Nikon 80-200 2.8 AF lens I was bidding on recently and the seller said it was in average to poor condition, yet 277 was to low for him. (I do not know the real reason he pulled it but I would bet on the above.)

I have been trying to get a Sigma 70-210 2.8 for a Canon, and do not want to really pay over 200 bucks, but that has meant I will not get one.

I bought a Nikon f2AS and watched prices drop into the 300 range this January, but having done a check today, my price in the mid four hundreds now looks like a deal.

Maybe it is just the time of year, and one gets fortunate or unfortunate, or maybe prices are on the rebound.

 

[Markok765]

These patterns seem to hold for me too. I'm a Nikon guy in 35mm. The lower-end stuff is definitely very cheap and not getting more costly at all. Conversely, there are a few bits of gear (the F5 body, the FM3a body and a few lenses, e.g. the 35/1.4) that seem to be going up in price.

I recently bought an F5 because they were so cheap and I could afford it. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of other film shooters are taking advantage of opportunities like this to buy high-end gear, and liquidate low-end gear. If this theory is right, that would explain why low-end stuff is dropping and high-end stuff is going up.

Theres a F5 in my local store for $800

 

[firecracker]

I find excellent deals because I shoot Canon FD and FL. Prices are so low, it's just criminal.

But FD/FL glass can't really be used with digital, because of the very short register distance. You need to have an adaptor with glass in it or put the rear element INSIDE the camera body.

I use my Canon New F-1 with New FD lenses, and I know what you mean. But even for the FD/New FD lines, it is becoming very hard to get certain popular prime lenses such as 35mm F2, 85mm F1.8, at least in the Japanese market. At Yahoo Japan Auction, which is as popular as eBay to the Japanese, those lenses in good condition still go for 200-250 USD and never really come down.

 

[Bobby Ironsights]

I use my Canon New F-1 with New FD lenses, and I know what you mean. But even for the FD/New FD lines, it is becoming very hard to get certain popular prime lenses such as 35mm F2, 85mm F1.8, at least in the Japanese market. At Yahoo Japan Auction, which is as popular as eBay to the Japanese, those lenses in good condition still go for 200-250 USD and never really come down.

Really? I'm sorry to hear that. If you get a chance, I'd suggest going for a 135mm f2.5. This is an amazing prime that I've never seen going locally for more than about 30 bucks in Canada/the states.

I do hear your pain about the wide fast primes though. They are just pretty rare/desireable.

 

[Wishy]

I think there is something missing in this analysis, how compatible are the old stuff with new digital.

I find excellent deals because I shoot Canon FD and FL. Prices are so low, it's just criminal.

But FD/FL glass can't really be used with digital, because of the very short register distance. You need to have an adaptor with glass in it or put the rear element INSIDE the camera body.

Unfortunately for Pentax K users the compatibility is pretty much perfect. It meant i were paying £10 for a Minolta MD 1.7 Prime, but a Pentax-A SMC 1.7 Prime is going for approx £40-50.
On the plus side, i bought in at the right time (Just before the K10D came out and the digital users took pentax seriously) and i can turn a bit of a profit if i defect.

Right now i'm collecting exaktas and the age of them + relative rarity makes coverters very hard to obtain, hence I've got a selection of top notch german glass at knock down prices.

 

[marsbars]

I wish that older Nikon lenses were that cheap, but they aren't that way yet. But also, I could be wrong, but isn't FD/FL glass a long discontinued lens mount? That my be the reasoning for such low prices. The nikon F mount and pentax K mount are as backwards compatible as one can go. So the fact they will work pretty well on the digital bodies might keep the prices up. I mean a good MF prime that is only 70 or 100 bucks that works well on a digital body beats a 300 dollar AF lens. Especially when you factor in how much the digital suckers pay for just the body alone.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Yes, the FD mount is discontinued, and that makes it pretty affordable, but there are also thousands of FD-compatible bodies in circulation, keeping up the price for some of the high-end lenses for which it would be worthwhile to acquire an FD body just to use one of those lenses like the 14mm/2.8L or the long teles for which it would be worth obtaining the rare FD-EOS adapter that works with lenses longer than 200mm.

 

[Bobby Ironsights]

Yes, the FD mount is discontinued, and that makes it pretty affordable, but there are also thousands of FD-compatible bodies in circulation, keeping up the price for some of the high-end lenses for which it would be worthwhile to acquire an FD body just to use one of those lenses like the 14mm/2.8L or the long teles for which it would be worth obtaining the rare FD-EOS adapter that works with lenses longer than 200mm.

Yes that is definitely a consideration. But you've got a keen mind and good sense.

However, the price of lenses on the used market doesn't seem to be driven by the few thinking men/women. It seems to be driven mostly by the great unwashed masses chanting..."Is that lens DSLR compatible?".

How many fast primes CAN one guy own right? I know that I can eat only two chickens in one day.