Film and paper processing chemistry

[chuckroast]

Yeah - it's way less fun than printing.

I dunno. I find developing film - open tank, or daylight - kind of exciting. It's like opening presents Christmas morning to see what you got.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

I dunno. I find developing film - open tank, or daylight - kind of exciting. It's like opening presents Christmas morning to see what you got.

+1

 

[GregY]

+1

+2 .....without opening the "gifts" there are no prints...

 

[Don_ih]

Plus whatever. Making prints is more fun.

 

[chuckroast]

Plus whatever. Making prints is more fun.

It certainly is fun making prints, no question. But learning to tune a negative so that one can make an expressive print is a similarly stimulating activity.

But I may be (ok, I am) weird, insofar as I love the whole process from composition to wall hanging. Well, almost ... I am not real fond of cutting matt board and framing ...

 

[Don_ih]

I didn't say developing film isn't fun. It's just not as fun as making prints. Saying one is preferable isn't condemning the other.

Mixing up your very own D76 is fun the first time you do it. It's not so noteworthy the 1000th time. Same with standing there inverting a developing tank. After a few thousand rolls, you tend to read or something while doing it. I also have a pretty good idea what's on the roll and am almost never surprised (more often disappointed).

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Plus whatever. Making prints is more fun.

I have an immense pleasure being in the darkroom. It's home.

But I rarely have fun making prints. I find it's hard work to do a good print. I like the hard work. I think it's meaningful. But only on rare occasions would I describe it as "fun."

 

[chuckroast]

I have an immense pleasure being in the darkroom. It's home.

But I rarely have fun making prints. I find it's hard work to do a good print. I like the hard work. I think it's meaningful. But only on rare occasions would I describe it as "fun."

It's kinda like anything else in life: The pain of the process isn't erased until the joy of the outcome is experienced. But the pain of the process is unavoidable so you embrace it.

I typically print in the darkroom for 4-6 hours at a time. I stop when I find myself taking shortcuts or sitting down a lot because I'm tired.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

I typically print in the darkroom for 4-6 hours at a time. I stop when I find myself taking shortcuts or sitting down a lot because I'm tired.

Same. And I have to be in a "working mode" even before I go in. That time is serious, that time is precious. If I'm not that into it that day, if have too much on my mind, I rather not go. Work won't be good.

 

[Don_ih]

I rarely have fun making prints.

I won't make them unless I find it fun. I like trying to get a print to look how I want it to look.

If I'm not that into it that day, if have too much on my mind, I rather not go. Work won't be good.

Some day I'm "darkroom blind" - as in, I just can't see anything when there and won't make a good print even if I followed my own proven instructions. Those day, it's best to leave.

 

[cliveh]

Darkroom work is very therapeutic. The sound of running water, the low light level, the introspection, the insulation within the room to achieve a result, enlarger focus at full aperture through a magnifier, the colour changes of filtration, time not important. Actually, working in a darkroom would form a great basis for a poem, or the lyrics for a song.

So come on you creative darkroom workers, let’s see some poetry or lyrics. A collective effort may produce something worth keeping, or alternatively list more Esoteric values about darkroom work that I can make into something.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Why are so many people on this site so obsessed with the minutia of film and paper processing chemistry, when it will make little difference to the resulting image.

​

I was thinking how interesting it would have been to take away "on this site" and ask the same question to a panel featuring people such as Sandy King, Barry Thornton, Geoffrey Crawley and others who were all active at a time when there were many excellent and different developers available and nevertheless felt the need to invent new ones.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

I like trying to get a print to look how I want it to look.

So do I. But only when I do get a print to finally look how I want it to look do I have fun. Before that, it's work. Again, I like the work. But I have little fun being constantly reminded of my limits both as a photographer and as a printer.

This might come from years being a musician. There was no fun in spending six to eight hours a day in a small practice studio trying to figure out how to voice the octaves at the beginning of Schubert's B Flat Major Sonata or how not to mess up the leaps at the end of the second movement of Schumann's C Major Fantasy. No fun, just work. And getting on stage and performing wasn't much fun either. There was fun, a lot of fun, but it was elsewhere, hard to say exactly where.

 

[loccdor]

It's a good analogy. One thing I learned selling industrial paint is that there is no such thing as either black or white paint. Concentrate one enough, or dilute the other enough, and you'll see that there is always some kind of distinct hue bias.

I was noticing the other day when I decided to wear an all black outfit. My jeans, shirt, undershirt, belt, and shoes were all different tones of black. One was purple, one was blue, another brownish.

That doesn't really make a difference in the context of a mixed outfit, but it pops out a lot more when you go fully dark.

Likewise, I suppose extensive knowledge of chemistry can help you at the fringes, but isn't necessary for more general photography, and may even be a distraction from what makes a good image.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I'm more of an alchemist. Try a pinch of this, a pinch of that, and see what happens. Yeah, I had a fair amount of organic chemistry in college, but found it worthwhile to forget over time (except when it comes to safe handling).

Different papers have different personalities, which it can take some time to make the most of. Change a paper and you might need to tweak the developer differently to get the effect you want.

Color printing is quite a bit different. It's helpful to standardize the development, and do the tweaking via colorhead and masking options. Assembly processes like dye transfer or gum printing would form an exception to that, where alchemy rules once again, except for generating the color separation negs, where one wants a well worked-out protocol.

Chemists speak of moles of this and moles of that; but we alchemists have the option of adding voles and gophers too.

 

[Don_ih]

I have fun. Before that, it's work.

Work for me is actually physically demanding - wear the skin off your bones kind of stuff. I don't know how difficult any kind of photographic activity would have to become for me to consider it "work".

 

[DREW WILEY]

The most tedious unhealthy kind of work is sitting on one's aching ass all day and straining your eyes punching computer buttons. Far worse than finish carpentry. As a purchasing agent, I had to do an awful lot of that; even had my own private server plus shared software writer. But I jockeyed my work role so that I could get daily hands-on breaks with my own merchandise. Of course, I knew how to use handtrucks and call for forklifts when needed. Some of my assistants didn't and relied on macho grunt force, and ended up with ruined backs and knees.

My current dilemma is dealing with a worn-out leaky darkroom sink faucet which is really difficult to reach from underneath. Doing cramped plumbing crawls has led to some nasty bursitis incidents. I have the right kind of sockets to loosen the valve stem from above; but will today's outsourced replacement parts really fit?

Otherwise, I've often found even film development relaxing. It's quiet in there.

 

[MattKing]

So come on you creative darkroom workers, let’s see some poetry or lyrics.

How about:

"There once was a photographer named Benjamin.
Who worked hard at his darkroom regimen.
His vision was clear.
But the effort was dear.
Before he attained the print that worked for him."

So @cliveh and @Alex Benjamin , how did I do?

 

[dcy]

Developing is the least interesting part of film photography, if I weren't such a tightwad id happily pay someone to do it for me.

Interesting how everyone has a different perspective. For me, I enjoy playing chemist. Not only do I enjoy developing film, what I enjoy even more is making the chemistry from scratch. I always smile when I get to use my beakers, scale, and hot plate. Then I enjoy using the chemistry and learning how to get good negatives.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

How about:

"There once was a photographer named Benjamin.
Who worked hard at his darkroom regimen.
His vision was clear.
But the effort was dear.
Before he attained the print that worked for him."

So @cliveh and @Alex Benjamin , how did I do?

I'm having it enlarged, printed, and hung on the darkroom wall !

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Interesting how everyone has a different perspective. For me, I enjoy playing chemist. Not only do I enjoy developing film, what I enjoy even more is making the chemistry from scratch. I always smile when I get to use my beakers, scale, and hot plate.

Actually, that's one part where I do have a lot of fun. Childish fun — like I'm back in high school chemistry class —, and even more so since I got me a magnetic stirrer! .

 

[chuckroast]

Darkroom work is very therapeutic. The sound of running water, the low light level, the introspection, the insulation within the room to achieve a result, enlarger focus at full aperture through a magnifier, the colour changes of filtration, time not important. Actually, working in a darkroom would form a great basis for a poem, or the lyrics for a song.

So come on you creative darkroom workers, let’s see some poetry or lyrics. A collective effort may produce something worth keeping, or alternatively list more Esoteric values about darkroom work that I can make into something.

There are strange things done
In the lack of sun
By the men who dip and dunk

Their trays and grails
Encode secret tales
Most 'oft dismissed just as bunk

The dim red lights
Have seen queer sights
But the queerest I ever did see

Were hands in straight TEA
Which made me to see
The meaning of "digit-ally"


(With sincere apologies to Robert Service)