A Swiss file with a safe edge so you can get into the corners and make them square without blowing them out.
Filing a negative carrier?
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A Swiss file with a safe edge so you can get into the corners and make them square without blowing them out.
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2010
- Messages
- 9,158
- Format
- 4x5 Format
I talked it over with a friend, how we have this disagreement about print borders.
My friend commented that in common, we all have high regard for the continuous tone printed image.
With this perspective, I acknowledge we can't accept the other position for ourselves. But I don't mind explaining myself - so ChristopherCoy, you can see both sides and make a decision for yourself.
Black borders are a constraint which makes my portfolio consistent since I started doing it. Consistent in the sense that I was all over the place before - and now I have made a decision. I tried borderless, 1/4-inch borders, 1/2-inch borders, full frame but with sharp borders... I want to make the "largest" prints possible on the paper, but I want some border to protect the image from dog-ears.
Second-best, I like wide clean borders. But my urge to "show everything" pushed me to illogical uneven borders. Something like 1-inch top and bottom and 3/8-inch left and right from 35mm on 11x14. Still it looks nice, but I didn't stick to any particular measure.
Limitations I acknowledge, but accept...
These creative, image improving measures are taken away from you if you do black borders: Flashing (pictorial dramatic flashing of corners). Cropping (omitting the image elements on negative that do not contribute to the image).
This problem is exacerbated: Flare (the white light all around the image adds flare almost as badly as taking a picture into the light)
It's not a big deal. Just scribe finish lines in with a sharp instrument so you know exaclty where to stop. I generally stop just short of the finish line and then go to a finner file to neatten up teh edges. Paint it flat black n you are good to go.
OP
OP
Can someone who's done this post a pic if the finished product? That way I can get an idea of how much you took off.
Nothing sets my teeth on edge more than a print from a filed negative carrier. It was a conceit several decades ago that I thought had blessedly gone out of fashion. "Here look at me, I use the full frame." Yetch.
I filed out a 6x6 to a 6x9. Works fine, though not the prettiest piece of equipment. used a coping saw with metal blade and file. oh and a standard drill.
Funny to see this pop up -- just two days ago I filed out the length of one of my Omega B8 carriers after my first attempt to enlarge a negative from my Ercona II (a "6x9") disclosed the largest carrier I had, while close in width, was only 81mm long and the camera frame is about 86. (I have no plans to print with a black border proclaiming "Fuji RVP" or any such thing. 
)
)
I used a file and sandpaper on 2 1/4 sq carriers for Omega D5. This allowed me (and the students) to print the entire negative as seen instead of accepting the crop as defined by the manufacturer. I usually trimmed the print to the image area for dry-mounting, or used the window mat to cover up to the image area. I drew a line on the carrier and filed until the line was gone.
For the students I used a jewelery saw and file (then sandpaper as suggested above) to turn a couple of our 35mm Omega D5 neg carriers into carriers that could print two or three 35mm negatives at a time. I had to patiently explain why they still had to set up the D5 for 4x5 negatives even though they were printing 35mm negatives!
To counter Gerald's rant; Rules, as well as maunfacturers' design features, are meant to be violated! ;o)
For the students I used a jewelery saw and file (then sandpaper as suggested above) to turn a couple of our 35mm Omega D5 neg carriers into carriers that could print two or three 35mm negatives at a time. I had to patiently explain why they still had to set up the D5 for 4x5 negatives even though they were printing 35mm negatives!
To counter Gerald's rant; Rules, as well as maunfacturers' design features, are meant to be violated! ;o)
Rather than file out the negative carrier, just get a 4"x5" glass negative holder. That would be more efficient in time, money, quality and negative flatness*.
* The more the negative holder is filed out, the negative sags more.
* The more the negative holder is filed out, the negative sags more.
It's not only the look but that it was done to death in the 50's or 60's. Look at the photo magazines and annuals of the time. The French have a convenient word to describe it déclassé. Something or someone that is out of fashion.
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I find it irritating that carriers crop into a negative. I have filed all my beseler carriers and then used black magic marker to reblacken the edge. The beseler carriers are a soft enough metal that you only need a file. I draw lines on the unfiled carrier to show how far I need to file. I don't print with the black borders, but I don't mind if you do.
Dennis
Dennis
I really don't care what people do. However photographers are constantly reminded not to copy what others do. That it is best to find our own style. Not produce something like another cliché IR image of a lone tree on a hill.
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Evidently you actually do really care what the people are doing Gerald or you wouldn't be commenting on something that you don't really care about right. More power to you i guess but it is what it is.
Hi there,
Just saw this thread pop up and remembered that I've written up some short tutorial with pictures of how I've done mine. I personally love the black borders and print with them all the time but it is down to everyone's own taste and there's no good answer to what looks better.
If you want to file your carrier(s) out, hope the below will be of some help:
Ben
The whole job took about 45 minutes for the two carriers. It started out slow and as I got the hang of the process it went a lot faster.
1. I took the necessary tools as it was suggested to me on another forum from my local DIY store. It cost less than $10 in total for the Metal file and the 600 grit sand paper. I also prepared the two carriers to be filed out. As I mostly shoot 135 and 6x6 I bought spare carriers for these, just in case I mess up the job I could still print with the originals. It all worked out though so spares were not necessary.
2. I prepared a small box with a plastic bag in it to hold the fine dust that comes off the carrier. This was mostly not to set off an alarm in my wife's head.
3. I marked a rough guide as to how far I want to go with the filing with a permanent marker.
4. As I had no vice I had to hold the carrier in my other hand while filing away. It felt awkward at first but got the hang of it quick. In order not to bend the carrier I was only pushing the file and never pulled on it. This kept the two sides of the carrier constantly pushed together.
5. This shows one side already filed out nicely.
6. And with both sides filed.
7. I then took the 600 grit sand paper and made sure the edges were sanded until they were completely smooth. I especially paid attention to the side where the negative comes in contact with the carrier.
8. Here you see the fine dust that was the result of my filing.
9. I then ran a Q-tip along the edges and made sure no fibers were caught from the cotton tip by some leftover burrs.
10. For testing I placed some negatives in the carrier I didn't really care for. This one had a light leak so the top and bottom edges of the frame can't be easily seen but if you look carefully you'll see all 4 sides show some extra film beyond the photo which is what I was after.
11. The same with the smaller 135 carrier.
12. The last step was to color the exposed metallic edges black to eliminate the unnecessary reflections. As I had no model paint or anything else, I went for a permanent marker and it worked remarkably well. It was a bit of a hassle to apply and I am not sure how "permanent" it'll end up being. If you can - do this with some model or gun paint instead.
If any questions just fire away!
Just saw this thread pop up and remembered that I've written up some short tutorial with pictures of how I've done mine. I personally love the black borders and print with them all the time but it is down to everyone's own taste and there's no good answer to what looks better.
If you want to file your carrier(s) out, hope the below will be of some help:
Ben
The whole job took about 45 minutes for the two carriers. It started out slow and as I got the hang of the process it went a lot faster.
1. I took the necessary tools as it was suggested to me on another forum from my local DIY store. It cost less than $10 in total for the Metal file and the 600 grit sand paper. I also prepared the two carriers to be filed out. As I mostly shoot 135 and 6x6 I bought spare carriers for these, just in case I mess up the job I could still print with the originals. It all worked out though so spares were not necessary.
2. I prepared a small box with a plastic bag in it to hold the fine dust that comes off the carrier. This was mostly not to set off an alarm in my wife's head.
3. I marked a rough guide as to how far I want to go with the filing with a permanent marker.
4. As I had no vice I had to hold the carrier in my other hand while filing away. It felt awkward at first but got the hang of it quick. In order not to bend the carrier I was only pushing the file and never pulled on it. This kept the two sides of the carrier constantly pushed together.
5. This shows one side already filed out nicely.
6. And with both sides filed.
7. I then took the 600 grit sand paper and made sure the edges were sanded until they were completely smooth. I especially paid attention to the side where the negative comes in contact with the carrier.
8. Here you see the fine dust that was the result of my filing.
9. I then ran a Q-tip along the edges and made sure no fibers were caught from the cotton tip by some leftover burrs.
10. For testing I placed some negatives in the carrier I didn't really care for. This one had a light leak so the top and bottom edges of the frame can't be easily seen but if you look carefully you'll see all 4 sides show some extra film beyond the photo which is what I was after.
11. The same with the smaller 135 carrier.
12. The last step was to color the exposed metallic edges black to eliminate the unnecessary reflections. As I had no model paint or anything else, I went for a permanent marker and it worked remarkably well. It was a bit of a hassle to apply and I am not sure how "permanent" it'll end up being. If you can - do this with some model or gun paint instead.
If any questions just fire away!
You're inherently contradicting yourself. You're saying that someone shouldn't express their own style because their preferred style happens to involve parts of a trend from 50 years ago. Just because you're unable to work your head around separating the use of a particular tool (full frame negative carrier) from a particular time and fashion doesn't mean that the only possible reason to use that tool is to pretend that one is working at that time and in that fashion. You're saying that someone is allowed to encouraged to express themselves EXCEPT when any part of that expression has ever been seen before because if anyone else has ever done it, one isn't allowed to like it enough to consider it part of one's own style.
That's a very hipster sentiment of the kind I'd expect to see on Instagram!
To the OP: I've worked with filed-out carriers for close to 2 decades. I generally compose to edge of the frame and don't need the crutch of cropping at the enlarger but often do need the last mm of negative edge. I'm much more likely to use the easel blades to block off the paper right at the edge of the image than I am to let the weird reflections and black area show though. I don't have anything against the black patches and ghosts that the filed and unpainted edges produce on their own. However, they become a part of the image and therefore must work compositionally. You'd almost have to custom-file a new negative carrier for each image to make sure that the outside-the-image areas fit the composition of the image.
I understand Gerald's POV, I feel the same way about the over saturated and over sharpened images that one sees all the time now -- even from good friends who have gone over to the digi-side from film. It takes effort, but I try to see their image that is hidden behind the saturation and sharpening before I turn my gaze from the horror. Because sometimes the image works despite my bias.
The problem with reading about something like filed carrier edges is that by the time one reads about it the idea is already out of fashion. In today's society what is trendy today is unfashionable tomorrow. The question that every photography must ask himself is "are you a copycat or do you strive for a unique, personal style." The world of photography is filled with Ansel Adams and Henri Catier-Breson wannbe's.
Why is it impossible for you to believe that someone might simply like the way that it looks rather than like it solely because you think it's trendy?
Why? Because the way the usual posts of this type are worded. The enthusiasm of the poster in finding what they believe to be new. Tout passé, tout cassé, tout lassé.
I've just re-read the first post. If he had said "I saw this thing called a view camera and it looks interesting. I've read some blogs about them and watched some videos. Is it really as simple as two metal frames with a accordion in the middle", would you be as condescending and assume that the only possible reason the person was interested in large format was to be trendy?
For that matter, film itself is currently a bigger hipster trend and fad than filed negative carriers. If someone had posted here on APUG about shooting film for the first time, would you be so negative and assume that there was no possibility that the poster had a real interest in learning wet photography and instead was just trying to jump on the trendy bandwagon?
WoW thank you I am wondering if you have any prints taken with that carrier to show us ? I am wondering how much to file away and what that will mean border wise. So it would be cool to see a photo showing the outcome if you can. I don't mean to be a pest but this really interest me.
Measure twice. Cut once.
That twice and once thing doesn't work - I cut it twice and it's STILL too short!!!
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