Fiber based Color paper

[erikg]

Dye Transfer prints were made on fiber paper. I miss that process, it was fun to do. There used to be display materials on a polyester base as well, Kodak Duratrans and Duraflex. Agfa and others made similar materials. I liked making prints on such material, the poly base gave the prints a certain pearlesence that the RC paper did not have. It was a similar to ciba in that respect, but much easier to work with.
Considering that you can't judge color on a wet print, printing on fiber would be much slower, and for what payoff? I can't see any advantage.

 

[dslater]

Considering that you can't judge color on a wet print, printing on fiber would be much slower, and for what payoff? I can't see any advantage.

Umm - because FB papers have a much nicer surface texture - RC paper looks like a shiny piece of plastic - which is exactly what it is.

 

[AgX]

There used to be display materials on a polyester base as well, Kodak Duratrans and Duraflex. Agfa and others made similar materials.

Agfa offers a dual-process print film which can be processed in C-41 and in RA-4:

`Avitone CP 70´

 

[mcfactor]

But now we do have various fiber papers for color with inkjet prints. The variety and quality of the papers is amazing. In conjunction with regular c-prints, there's a much wider and better selection of papers than ever before.

 

[Photo Engineer]

But now we do have various fiber papers for color with inkjet prints. The variety and quality of the papers is amazing. In conjunction with regular c-prints, there's a much wider and better selection of papers than ever before.

The variety of surfaces for inkjet is far smaller than that once available to color paper and B&W paper enthusiasts. I wonder why?

PE

 

[donbga]

Even glossier than RC paper? ick - glossy RC paper is already so shiny, I can't imagine it being even more so.

Kodak sell's semi-matt (N surface) and Luster (E surface). Fuji Crystal Archive is availabel in Glossy, Luster, and Matt surfaces. The Luster and Semi-Matt and Matt surfaces are very attractive, IMO. PE is correct you don't want fiber based color paper for the reasons he listed.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Ron, did you ever ask Eric Taubman about the special order of FB color paper he says he ordered from Kodak once? I recall that you had your doubts, but he's a lab owner and probably a Kodak dealer, and I know he's made special orders of 20x24" film, so I didn't see any particular reason to doubt his claim.

 

[Photo Engineer]

David;

I have not had any information about this order. Most all of the older paper manfuacturing people are gone. The RA team is there now, but unless it was done with RA, no one would know.

I can say that one run at Kodak Park would have been between 5000 and 15000 linear feet of 42" paper and the machine could not have run at the same speed as it would for FB due to drying and tensioning.

FB paper expands during coating and therefore linear and longitudinal sizes change somewhat. RC does not. Also the paper swells (thickness) due to moisture and dries more slowly. Therefore the formulas as coated and during coating (the machine setup is part of the formula) cannot be the same.

Anyone ordering FB color from EK would be forced to undertake the development of that formula on a narrow width machine to test speeds and drying conditions.

On another matter, the surfaces of papers was done by calendaring rollers made by Rohelen engraving of Rochester. This treatment was done at different stages in the process of manufacturing the paper depending on the surface. Kodak was probably the largest customer for these massive stainless steel rollers. They wore out rapidly and were replaced often.

AFAIK, Rohelen is now out of business. At least, their big plant on Jefferson Road in Henrietta was not there when I looked for them. So, even if someone wanted these surfaces and could pay, there is no easy way to get the engraving done, I would think.

Schoeller in Germany offers only 3 surfaces or perhaps 4 in FB and perhaps 2 in RC. I have gotten samples of 3 of the surfaces of FB paper and 3 in RC that are currently in production. I have them here at home. I have hand coated on all of these and in addition have used commercial papers without baryta such as watercolor, vellum and canvas. The result is that handcoaters would have up to perhaps 7 or 8 different surfaces for prints. This probably would not be the case for production coatings.

PE

 

[labyrinth photo]

hi, sorry to drag this up again but i was thinking about colour fibre paper and started seraching for infoand found this.
i used to work for eric/LTI in london and remember the lab using this paper. it did exist however i remember very little about it's properties, the emulsion seemed fined on the support layer. the only criticism seems that it was over saturated.
i know someone who may have a print from back then, i'll look into it. eric is obviously still around in nyc.

 

[AgX]

Of course it existed. All chromogenic papers first had an un-covered paper base. There was a short period of synthettic base. But fibre base was the mainstay.In the late 60s RC-paper base was introduced.