Fed Up With JOBO!

waffles · Apr 28, 2022

I am sick and tired of my JOBO developing tanks!!

Years ago, I switch from my classic Nikor + Hewes system to a more modern system. I went with the JOBO 1500 system instead of the Paterson Super System 4 primarily based on two factors:

1. The ability to easily “double up” rolls of 120 film with the JOBO.
2. The reputation of the JOBO system as being relatively leakproof.

Both of these ended up being false!

I just developed two rolls of 120 film in my JOBO 1520 and it tool me almost an hour to load both rolls onto the plastic reel! Almost 60 minutes of cursing and swearing as I try to nudge the very thin, very wide roll of 120 film on to the JOBO reel and constantly having to back off and try again. I’m no novice either! I’ve been loading reels in changing bags since 2014 … nearly 8 years.

And then when developing the film, the damn JOBO 1520 leaks all over the place!! Now I got fixer all over my kitchen!

I don’t understand all the love the JOBO gets here on the forums. Yes, the quality of the German craftsmanship that goes into manufacturing the tanks & reels is high. But that doesn’t matter because the design of the system is fundamentally flawed.

Unless you’re already invested in one of their color processors, you’re better off going with literally any other brand.

</rant>

McDiesel · Apr 28, 2022

I was in your shoes, may I suggest that it will get better? I used to struggle with loading JOBO reels coming from Paterson tanks and compatible "wide-lipped" Omega reels. But I have found a way and now my JOBO loading is insanely fast. I can do four rolls of 120 film onto two reels is probably less than 2 minutes, and loading the 35mm is even a bigger improvement vs the Paterson. I don't think describing the process of loading in text form will help here [1]. Just play with them until find your own way.

In regards to leaking, I find JOBO tanks to be not completely leak proof, but definitely more so than Patersons. However, with JOBO tanks it's very easy to not close the lid properly, all the way. Make a square with four fingers and push firmly on the interior of the lid. I agitate using the TAS machine processor which rotates tanks in the air (there is no water bath). My three JOBO tanks never drop any liquids, but I see some on the edges of the lid.

All in all I would declare the JOBO system as a moderate improvement over the Paterson's, but I have not used Nikkor/Hewes tanks that you're coming from.

[1] Ok I will try: I stick a leading corner of film into one of the grooves, hold it with a finger. The opposite corner naturally lands on the opposite groove - just a little bit ahead / on top, so I gently slide it back while holding the 1st corner, and then "tuck it in" and I'm done. Then, I do not ratchet like with Patersons, I simply keep pushing film by its edges using the recessed area on both sides of the reel. Not having to deal with those ball bearings is amazing.

otto.f · Apr 28, 2022

I’m in your shoes and it didn’t get better within a reasonable time. My JOBO 1500 lies somewhere in a dark niche of my darkroom and left to me the image of a posh, expenisive brand with high pretentions which you never hear debunked. Happy with AP, priceless.

shutterfinger · Apr 28, 2022

I have been using Jobo 25xx tanks and reels since the mid 1990's. I'm not a fan of the 2502 for 120/135 but the tanks and 2509n reels for sheet film are like going from a bottom of the line economy car to a Bentley.
The 1500 and Patterns came into existence since I went with Jobo. The 2500's are way beyond the other tanks of day. Based on other's comments the 1500's are superior to Patterson. I have stainless steel tanks and reels including 1 Nikkor and a Hewes 120 reel that I do not like. Other brands of 120 stainless reels are easier for me to load.

Plastic reels are a PITA to load if damp or your hands are sweating in the changing bag, any brand.
Ensure the lid is snapped down all around the tank as they can sometimes be slightly raised in some places if you're not thorough. I press down ever 30¯ to 45¯.
Even the best occasionally have production defects, contact your supplier or Jobo if you continue to have leaks.

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Beats those flat changing bags hands down.

halfaman · Apr 28, 2022

I have loaded hundreds of 120 rolls with Jobo 1500 system, normally two per reel. It is important to control the lateral displacement of the film in the reel while loading, it can be done very easily with the index fingers of both hands.

I use Jobo tanks in rotary processing so I can't commnet about leaks with manual inversions.

AgX · Apr 28, 2022

waffles said:
Almost 60 minutes of cursing and swearing as I try to nudge the very thin, very wide roll of 120 film on to the JOBO reel and constantly having to back off and try again.

I employed dictionaries but still am not sure what you were doing.

All Jobo reels intended for spooled film since about 60 years are to be loaded by a pseudo ratchet-action.
Though different designs were applied to the reels over time.

Nitroplait · Apr 28, 2022

I went the other way for 120 film: LPL and Hewes stainless reels - no more plastic 120 reel nightmare ever again!

Regarding leaking - I am not aware of any system that doesn't leak to some extend - at least with some years of use and wear.

AgX · Apr 28, 2022

Alternatively to the System 1500 the reels from System 1000 may be used.
But these slip on the 1500 stems, which, depending on situation, should be cared for.

markbau · Apr 28, 2022

The golden rule of Jobo and Patterson reels is that they have to be 100% dry before you load them. Even the tiniest amount of moisture on the reels will end up in tears. Yes they leak but so do Patterson tanks, just learn to "burp" them.
Regarding Jobo generally. I've owned CPE, CPP units over the years. They are a great idea but I've always found them somewhat flimsy. The plastic thing that holds the bottles in the water is easily broken and I have also broken the lift handle twice. My CPP now sits in a corner of my darkroom gathering dust as I no longer do E6 or Cibachromes. I find B&W film developing far simpler in a Patterson tank.

logan2z · Apr 28, 2022

I'm following this thread with interest because I've been thinking about picking up a Jobo 1500 or 2500 for inversion processing of B&W film.

I'm curious, if the plastic Jobo reels can be problematic, is there a reason more people don't use Hewes (for Jobo) steel reels in their Jobo tanks?

cramej · Apr 28, 2022

I haven't tried this technique yet, but Pictorial Planet on YouTube shows a method to make loading the film easier. If you can get the whole piece of tape off the backing paper instead of tearing like I do, fold it over the end of the film. This should make it a bit more rigid and theoretically easier to load on the reel.

I used SS reels for a while and just recently got into the Paterson system. I've had fewer problems getting film on the Paterson reels than I do SS even with the nice reels. Plus the Paterson tank doesn't need to be inverted for agitation like the Nikor tank - less mess!

Vaughn · Apr 28, 2022

Thankfully, the Jobo Expert tanks are wonderful for sheet film...I use the 3005 (I have three) and the 3006.

Hewes SS reels for 120, tho.

woodlandSerenade · Apr 28, 2022

I haven’t had any issues loading 135, 120, or even 220 on my Jobo 1500 series reels. In fact, it feels like I can load a roll of 135 in less than 30 seconds flat. 120 is a little slower, but not by much.
I have had some slight leakage (<5 drops or so) when developing b&w at normal temperatures. It seems the lids are less flexible at room temp. The solution to that was soaking the lids in warm/hot water for a few minutes before developing. They become much more pliable once warm.
No issues past that.

Sirius Glass · Apr 28, 2022

Solutions:

Make sure the lids are on tight and level.
Trim the corners of the film and it will load better.
If all else fail, you have a load of junk so just sent it to me and I will dispose of it.

pentaxuser · Apr 28, 2022

Waffles: Top Leaks: Examine the inside of the top and see if one of the square black teeth that fit over the circumference of the tank has broken. One of mine did and while the top still fitted perfectly the broken tooth meant it leaked

Difficulty in loading: Run a soft lead pencil such as a 4-8B round the the two halves of the reel, The graphite in the lead can make all the difference to how the film slides in

If my first tip is not true of your top and my second does not work then simply sell the Jobo tank and buy a different make

Now one or more of those 3 recommendations is bound to solve the problem. Of that I can guarantee then celebrate by buying a waffle

pentaxuser

Pieter12 · Apr 28, 2022

I have found it a little easier to load the Jobo reels with 120 by rounding the corners of the film with a cutter used by scrapbookers. But Paterson reels are still easier to load because they have a little ball bearing that pulls the film along as you rotate the reel sides. Just make sure the ball bearing is not stuck before you load the reel. The Jobo lid won't leak if properly closed--sometimes a pain--but the Jobo tank is much easier and faster to fill and empty than Paterson. Neither system is ideal in my mind, I end up using both.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 28, 2022

McDiesel said:
I was in your shoes, may I suggest that it will get better? I used to struggle with loading JOBO reels coming from Paterson tanks and compatible "wide-lipped" Omega reels. But I have found a way and now my JOBO loading is insanely fast. I can do four rolls of 120 film onto two reels is probably less than 2 minutes, and loading the 35mm is even a bigger improvement vs the Paterson. I don't think describing the process of loading in text form will help here [1]. Just play with them until find your own way.

In regards to leaking, I find JOBO tanks to be not completely leak proof, but definitely more so than Patersons. However, with JOBO tanks it's very easy to not close the lid properly, all the way. Make a square with four fingers and push firmly on the interior of the lid. I agitate using the TAS machine processor which rotates tanks in the air (there is no water bath). My three JOBO tanks never drop any liquids, but I see some on the edges of the lid.

All in all I would declare the JOBO system as a moderate improvement over the Paterson's, but I have not used Nikkor/Hewes tanks that you're coming from.

[1] Ok I will try: I stick a leading corner of film into one of the grooves, hold it with a finger. The opposite corner naturally lands on the opposite groove - just a little bit ahead / on top, so I gently slide it back while holding the 1st corner, and then "tuck it in" and I'm done. Then, I do not ratchet like with Patersons, I simply keep pushing film by its edges using the recessed area on both sides of the reel. Not having to deal with those ball bearings is amazing.

+1

waffles · Apr 28, 2022

logan2z said:
I'm curious, if the plastic Jobo reels can be problematic, is there a reason more people don't use Hewes (for Jobo) steel reels in their Jobo tanks?

Because, if I’m not mistaken, the Hewes reel only allows you to load one roll of 120 film on it. And if I wanted to do that I would’ve stuck with my Nikor (not “nikkor”) steel tank.

Agulliver · Apr 28, 2022

How on earth is your Jobo tank leaking?

I've used Paterson, Jessops (=AP), stainless steel (when at school in the 80s) and since 2003 Jobo 1500 series. I even have the extention tube to allow 4xspools at once. How on earth did you achieve significant leakage with it? I would hazard a guess there's a crack somewhere in the tank or funnel part, or the connection where the two meet has been damaged my misuse, or the rubber cap has been maltreated and is deformed? I've only managed to make mine leak once, when the extension (which I bought second hand and has seen heavy use) didn't quite mate with the main tank.

Loading 120 film is a little tricky but once you've got it started it should be no more difficult than 135 or any other format. Do ensure your spiral reel is 100% dry and in good condition. Clean it properly after every use otherwise the chemicals can gradually weaken the plastic.

Can you describe further what's going wrong? Are you able to load other formats with less trouble? What is your usual regimen? Have you tried other tanks?

In the end, it's also possible that something about the Jobo just doesn't work for you....in which case there's nothing wrong with getting a Paterson, AP or other system. They all do the same job in slightly different ways. I happen to prefer the Jobo because it's smaller and appears more sturdy than Paterson or AP though I do still use a Jessops (=AP) as backup for when I'm developing lots at a time, or different development times for different films. And let me tell you, that leaks a lot more than the Jobo ever has. But it does it's job. I just wrap a couple of pieces of kitchen paper round the top.

Agulliver · Apr 28, 2022

woodlandSerenade said:
I haven’t had any issues loading 135, 120, or even 220 on my Jobo 1500 series reels. In fact, it feels like I can load a roll of 135 in less than 30 seconds flat. 120 is a little slower, but not by much.
I have had some slight leakage (<5 drops or so) when developing b&w at normal temperatures. It seems the lids are less flexible at room temp. The solution to that was soaking the lids in warm/hot water for a few minutes before developing. They become much more pliable once warm.
No issues past that.

ooh that is potentially an interesting observation. I find mine leaks a few drops in the summer and less in winter. I had assumed it preferred the cold....but......

I keep my film developing gear in a bucket, often not in the warmest part of the house. And sometimes in winter I will warm it up in the bathroom with a space heater until the chemicals come up to temperature. But that does also mean that the external surfaces of some items are warmer, and that might make my Jobo lid more supple?

Either way, it doesn't leak more than a few drops. Not even sufficient to bother blotting the sink or floor with a paper towel.

waffles · Apr 28, 2022

Pieter12 said:
I have found it a little easier to load the Jobo reels with 120 by rounding the corners of the film with a cutter used by scrapbookers. But Paterson reels are still easier to load because they have a little ball bearing that pulls the film along as you rotate the reel sides. Just make sure the ball bearing is not stuck before you load the reel. The Jobo lid won't leak if properly closed--sometimes a pain--but the Jobo tank is much easier and faster to fill and empty than Paterson. Neither system is ideal in my mind, I end up using both.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought those little ball bearings only helped with 135 film? They are designed to fit into the sprocket holes.

Sirius Glass · Apr 28, 2022

waffles said:
Because, if I’m not mistaken, the Hewes reel only allows you to load one roll of 120 film on it. And if I wanted to do that I would’ve stuck with my Nikor (not “nikkor”) steel tank.

Correct

MattKing · Apr 28, 2022

waffles said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought those little ball bearings only helped with 135 film? They are designed to fit into the sprocket holes.

They do also contribute to how well the ratcheting works with 120.
I find loading 35mm in steel reels to be the easiest.
Well burpt Paterson Super System 4 with wide flange AP reels work best with 120 for me - and I regularly do two 120 rolls on a single reel.
I can't load 120 on to steel reels - period.

waffles · Apr 28, 2022

McDiesel said:
Ok I will try: I stick a leading corner of film into one of the grooves, hold it with a finger. The opposite corner naturally lands on the opposite groove - just a little bit ahead / on top, so I gently slide it back while holding the 1st corner, and then "tuck it in" and I'm done. Then, I do not ratchet like with Patersons, I simply keep pushing film by its edges using the recessed area on both sides of the reel. Not having to deal with those ball bearings is amazing.

I don’t have any trouble getting the leading edge of the film into the opening groove of the reel. I do the same thing as you. I slip one corner of the film into the groove, hold it, and then slip the opposite corner of the film into the opposite groove. Then I push the film in about 2-3 inches until I can grab it in the recessed wedge.

The problem is after that. I try to gently load the film onto the reel, and it will move smoothly for 2-3 inches. But then it will jam. And I have to back it off an inch, and try again. And the further on the reel the film advances, the more difficult it becomes to load! To the point when, if I’m trying to load two rolls, the first roll becomes almost impossible unless I “force” it. And yes, this is with a bone-dry reel.

Sirius Glass · Apr 28, 2022

waffles said:
I don’t have any trouble getting the leading edge of the film into the opening groove of the reel. I do the same thing as you. I slip one corner of the film into the groove, hold it, and then slip the opposite corner of the film into the opposite groove. Then I push the film in about 2-3 inches until I can grab it in the recessed wedge.

The problem is after that. I try to gently load the film onto the reel, and it will move smoothly for 2-3 inches. But then it will jam. And I have to back it off an inch, and try again. And the further on the reel the film advances, the more difficult it becomes to load! To the point when, if I’m trying to load two rolls, the first roll becomes almost impossible unless I “force” it. And yes, this is with a bone-dry reel.

First clean the groove with a toothbrush, the use graphite as recommended before. If it then catches or sticks, pull the film forward by hand and then continue the rocking motion. That should fix your problem.

Fed Up With JOBO!

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