Fed 1g winder issue

[Cerebum]

I picked up a Fed 1g quite cheaply. The only issue it appears to have is on the winder. When you wind there is a fair bit of tension and when you get to the end it springs back a little bit. If you hold it at the end of the wind and don't let it spring back the shutter speeds are fine (inc. bulb) but they aren't if I let it spring back. Is there an easy fix or is it a strip down job?
Thanks
Peter

 

[henryvk]

Do you mean that the film advance knob moves back (counter-clockwise) when you advance all the way to the next frame?

Even with the correct tension on the shutter curtains the film advance is never butter-smooth, a little stiff if you will, but it shouldn't grind and you shouldn't strain to turn the knob. It should not skip back counterclockwise afaik.

My first guess is that there is an issue with the curtain tension. If you have a CRT monitor or tube television it's easy enough to check (https://rangefinderforum.com/threads/how-to-fed-zorki-curtain-tension.31209/) and to adjust. If you do decide to do this make sure you take careful note of the position of the shims underneath the lens ring, as they need to go back exactly like they were or your focus will be off: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-101.html

The disassembly is not hard, otherwise. If this camera hasn't been serviced it's a good idea to do it anyway because, as Rick Oleson notes:

The most common cause of trouble in the Leica/FED/Zorki shutter is dirt and film chips getting into the large pair of gears at the bottom of the big curtain drum (just visible peeking out at the lower left of the chassis above). Make sure these gears are completely clean and running smoothly before you attempt any other adjustments.

So maybe before you decide to re-tension do some cleaning first. No need for a full disassembly, just the cover off and you can dab the gears with a q-tip soaked in your favorite solvent (I use break cleaner), blow them dry or let them air dry and put on a drop of gun-oil or similar.

 

[Dustin McAmera]

Does the camera do this with or without film?

 

[Cerebum]

Do you mean that the film advance knob moves back (counter-clockwise) when you advance all the way to the next frame?

Even with the correct tension on the shutter curtains the film advance is never butter-smooth, a little stiff if you will, but it shouldn't grind and you shouldn't strain to turn the knob. It should not skip back counterclockwise afaik.

My first guess is that there is an issue with the curtain tension. If you have a CRT monitor or tube television it's easy enough to check (https://rangefinderforum.com/threads/how-to-fed-zorki-curtain-tension.31209/) and to adjust. If you do decide to do this make sure you take careful note of the position of the shims underneath the lens ring, as they need to go back exactly like they were or your focus will be off: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-101.html

The disassembly is not hard, otherwise. If this camera hasn't been serviced it's a good idea to do it anyway because, as Rick Oleson notes:



So maybe before you decide to re-tension do some cleaning first. No need for a full disassembly, just the cover off and you can dab the gears with a q-tip soaked in your favorite solvent (I use break cleaner), blow them dry or let them air dry and put on a drop of gun-oil or similar.

Brilliant. Thanks

 

[Cerebum]

Does the camera do this with or without film?

Yeah it does it without film in

 

[henryvk]

Also have you tried to engage/disengage the locking collar around the shutter release? Are you able to change shutter speeds?

Check this thread too: https://www.flickr.com/groups/17036158@N00/discuss/72157613113998988/

I think I had this issue with a FED 5 where the camera was actually cocked the whole time but wouldn't release until I messed around with the locking collar and worked the film advance a bit.

But if the shutter on your FED actually fires there's probably something else going on. I'd still check the tension because it's a good idea either way.

 

[Cerebum]

Also have you tried to engage/disengage the locking collar around the shutter release? Are you able to change shutter speeds?

Check this thread too: https://www.flickr.com/groups/17036158@N00/discuss/72157613113998988/

I think I had this issue with a FED 5 where the camera was actually cocked the whole time but wouldn't release until I messed around with the locking collar and worked the film advance a bit.

But if the shutter on your FED actually fires there's probably something else going on. I'd still check the tension because it's a good idea either way.

I can change shutter speeds but the faster it goes, the more pronounced the rewind. I put a short film through, held the wind knob as I shot to stop the rewind and the images came out OK so the shutter is firing ok. I suspected curtain tension too. I need to find a few detailed descriptions of how I do it. I am thinking I can take the tension off in small doses to see if it improves, and if it doesn't, just put it back to where I started. The link in your first post was excellent BTW.

 

[henryvk]

Hmmm hmm. I might be wrong but I'm thinking it shouldn't snap back if the locking collar is engaged. Does the shutter speed dial turn back too?

There's no harm in reducing the tension a quarter turn at a time to see if it has an effect. However, if you take the cover off I'd advise to clean those big gears as they collect dirt and chips of film.

 

[Cerebum]

I am slightly confused by "locking collar engaged" I have attached a couple of images to show the collar on the shutter button and how far back it springs. BTW, everything that advances springs back a bit

 

[Cerebum]

My camera guy just said its a transport issue and not curtains. That's a shame.

 

[henryvk]

I am slightly confused by "locking collar engaged" I have attached a couple of images to show the collar on the shutter button and how far back it springs. BTW, everything that advances springs back a bit

Ah, that's my bad. The FED1 doesn't yet have the collar but a rewind selector.

Here it's in the advance position. Turning it counter clockwise will set it to "B" which is rewind.

That's not it then.

 

[Cerebum]

Ah, that's my bad. The FED1 doesn't yet have the collar but a rewind selector.

View attachment 350959

Here it's in the advance position. Turning it counter clockwise will set it to "B" which is rewind.

That's not it then.

Ah, yeah, my fed 3 has the collar

 

[henryvk]

Have you checked what the shutter speed shaft does when the advance knob spins counterclockwise?

This gear should normally only allow the advance know to spin clockwise. Maybe the selector "clutch" is skipping?

I'd disassemble and observe, it should be obvious but I don't have a Zorki in front of me right now

 

[Cerebum]

Have you checked what the shutter speed shaft does when the advance knob spins counterclockwise?

View attachment 350960

This gear should normally only allow the advance know to spin clockwise. Maybe the selector "clutch" is skipping?

I'd disassemble and observe, it should be obvious but I don't have a Zorki in front of me right now

To get to this point do I just remove the four screws on the front? It would enable me to check for detritus and bits of old film

 

[aw614]

Camera disassembly1

Guide to take it apart. It isn't hard, but it does get tricky to put it back together and make sure the pieces that hold the lens mount line up with the screw holes, but for the most part its fairly easy to get it into the stat shown by henryvk

​

 

[henryvk]

To get to this point do I just remove the four screws on the front? It would enable me to check for detritus and bits of old film

It's the frontal screws, the ones around the top rim of the cover itself and the four in the lens ring. You should be okay going off Oleson here: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-101.html

Or one of the numerous vidoes on YT.

Whatever you do, make sure the camera is face up when you take the lens ring off, because the shims are underneath and you'll have to put them back the way they were. Just be very carefull when you lift the ring and take a photo of the position of the shims for reference. They are literally just little whispy bits of paper, so keep the window shut for this one

 

[Cerebum]

It's the frontal screws, the ones around the top rim of the cover itself and the four in the lens ring. You should be okay going off Oleson here: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-101.html

Or one of the numerous vidoes on YT.

Whatever you do, make sure the camera is face up when you take the lens ring off, because the shims are underneath and you'll have to put them back the way they were. Just be very carefull when you lift the ring and take a photo of the position of the shims for reference. They are literally just little whispy bits of paper, so keep the window shut for this one

View attachment 350961

Thanks I need to build up my courage before attempting this

 

[henryvk]

Thanks I need to build up my courage before attempting this

Take your time, it will be edifying in that you'll see that the mechanism is fairly simple and, most importantly, robust. And there is a ton of reference material online to help you along the way!