FB vs RC paper for book-making

[horacekenneth]

Any pros or cons to using FB or RC paper for book making? I've made a couple books with FB paper because that's what I typically have on hand but I imagine with RC paper it will be much easier to have pages that lay flat

 

[jeffreyg]

How do you bind them? I've made a couple books but printed with the computer and dual coated papers. I made the covers -- the whole works.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[horacekenneth]

How do you bind them? I've made a couple books but printed with the computer and dual coated papers. I made the covers -- the whole works.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

One was a concertina, made a hardcover out of cloth and chipboard with a gelatin silver image covering the inside of the case (I just learned the right terminology for it might be a "pastedown" ?). The other is a really simple five-hole pamphlet stitch with a chipboard and silver paper cover.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Any pros or cons to using FB or RC paper for book making? I've made a couple books with FB paper because that's what I typically have on hand but I imagine with RC paper it will be much easier to have pages that lay flat

It's really a question of paper thickness & how you compensate for it - be it by guarding or hinging on to a signature, or by cutting down certain sheets within a signature to allow the greater thickness of FB paper to sit correctly without making the book block bulge awkwardly. All pretty standard stuff if you have a moderate amount of bookbinding experience. If you want to tip-in without needing to compensate, you'll really need to use 100gsm or less papers & that really only leaves you with Japanese inkjet papers or some coated stocks for offset/ HP Indigo (possibly up to 115gsm range) unless you coat your own silver gelatin paper.

 

[removed account4]

Any pros or cons to using FB or RC paper for book making? I've made a couple books with FB paper because that's what I typically have on hand but I imagine with RC paper it will be much easier to have pages that lay flat

hello horacekenneth

i have made books with both types of papers. it depends on the construction of your book.
will the photographs be "tipped in" ( one edge glued down or slipped into corners ) or will
each page be the actual image / photo paper ?
you will need to add thickness to the spine where you will be sewing it so the pages down fan and the book lays flat
you can do this by folding the gutter edge so each page is 2x its thickness. compensates for image thickness.
RC paper isn't the best to make as image pages because of the nature of RC paper. it lies flat but it doesnt' really fold well, unless you
score the pages and remove some of the plastic coating but then you will be weakening the page and the pages may rip ...
image pages of FB paper work great. if you are using "modern technology" look for a double sided IJ paper so you will have images on every page ...
or if you are hand coating you can hand coat on both sides which is always fun. the last IDK 15 books i have made have been open spine
and i use acid free rag paper that i tip in images ( both rc and fb ) with either rice paste or wheat paste. i interleave with waxed paper and put under something heavy
as they dry ( books boxes and portfolio explains the best time to remove the weights if you don't have a nipping press or a book press )
some books l let fan others i added extra thickness with the same rag paper in the spine ( like shims ) and drilled + sewed the whole thing togther .. lots of fun !

good luck with your project !

 

[slackercrurster]

First artist's book back in the 70's was wet prints. Dry mount pages back to back and they are flat.

But all I do is inkjet books now. Even with inkjet, paper flatness is an issue.

 

[slackercrurster]

How do you bind them? I've made a couple books but printed with the computer and dual coated papers. I made the covers -- the whole works.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

I use spiral. that way the hand printed books can be unbound for display if needed and rebound in 5 minutes. But spiral has limits on thickness and some say it looks cheesy.

 

[slackercrurster]

Best paper is dual sided and you can print on each side and it is not too thick. But again flatness is always a concern. And duo paper choices are limited.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Paper flatness should be fine if grain direction is respected - especially with inkjet papers. It astonishes me how ignorant and slapdash people are with this basic yet crucial detail.

 

[slackercrurster]

Here is Ruscha's book that is on display at the Riverside Photo Museum in CA.

They cut out the pages spiral holes in their photos

https://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/collection/works/431.2008.a-ww/

For the museum show they unbound the spiral pages and had them displayed unframed.

 

[scheimfluger_77]

...i have made books with both types of papers. it depends on the construction of your book...

John do you have a reference on where to learn bookbinding like this?

 

[removed account4]

hi steve

there are some tutorials online on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bookbinding+tutorial
sometimes they have specialized equipment like nipping presses and "stuff" like that
cast iron nipping presses cost an arm and leg but you can get some lower cost book making supplies
through gaylord brothers .. http://www.gaylord.com they sell book repair and conservation materials to libraries and archives ...
there is a ez peezy low cost book on making books called books boxes and portfolios https://www.amazon.com/Books-Boxes-Portfolios-Step-Step/dp/0830634835
it has info on using bricks and heavy stuff you might have around the house instead of expensive presses &c
kind of like bare bones easy ways to do complicated stuff so anyone can do it.
and then there are the keith smith books
http://keithsmithbooks.com
it is filled with information on non-adhesive binding, exotic stitchings, different types of books to make he's whatyou might call a book making demi god
the japanese bound books i do are stitched like some of keith smiths books... i don't glue the pages into a block and do a closed spine .. i have but i like to keep it simple
i have a template and try to glue the top edge of each photo ( "tipped in" ) onto rag paper in the same spot
( acid free cotton &c ) then i stitch those pages between the covers .. its really not as complicated as it sounds
keith smith's books are probably the best series of books on making artist books. if you get them don't get overwhelmed
by how many stitches there are, but pick one or 2 out and have fun with it i do just a bare bones 5 hole stitch nothing too fancy... one thing you need to watch out for is the thickness of the photo ... what i've done is cut off extra paper the length and width of where the stitching is going to be, and stitch through extra thickness so the pages don't fan/
the book covers don't lie parallel to eachother. you can also fold the edge to double the thickness, that looks nice too...

good luck !
john

ps. local art centers might have classes on making books, its worth looking around local and seeing if you can get a hands on course too ...
i was lucky that when i was a kid i was in boy scouts and there was a bookbinder doing conservation work a few miles away from me
and i got a merit badge and had a great time, then i did my sr project in high school making a book with him, then in college again ... all those things
i made with him were traditional closed spine books .. eventually when i started doing this stuff on my own i didn't have any equipment so i taught myself japanese binding
it is a lot of fun !

 

[Maris]

RC paper can be split at an edge and the emulsion layer carrying the photograph can be peeled off intact. This yields a very thin picture which can be tipped in without bulking up a book page too much. A bit of practice is needed to get a neat result and small pictures are a lot easier than big ones. My limit is about 4x5.

 

[scheimfluger_77]

hi steve

there are some tutorials online on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bookbinding+tutorial
sometimes they have specialized equipment like nipping presses and "stuff" like that
cast iron nipping presses cost an arm and leg but you can get some lower cost book making supplies
through gaylord brothers .. http://www.gaylord.com they sell book repair and conservation materials to libraries and archives ...
there is a ez peezy low cost book on making books called books boxes and portfolios https://www.amazon.com/Books-Boxes-Portfolios-Step-Step/dp/0830634835
it has info on using bricks and heavy stuff you might have around the house instead of expensive presses &c
kind of like bare bones easy ways to do complicated stuff so anyone can do it.
and then there are the keith smith books
http://keithsmithbooks.com
it is filled with information on non-adhesive binding, exotic stitchings, different types of books to make he's whatyou might call a book making demi god
the japanese bound books i do are stitched like some of keith smiths books... i don't glue the pages into a block and do a closed spine .. i have but i like to keep it simple
i have a template and try to glue the top edge of each photo ( "tipped in" ) onto rag paper in the same spot
( acid free cotton &c ) then i stitch those pages between the covers .. its really not as complicated as it sounds
keith smith's books are probably the best series of books on making artist books. if you get them don't get overwhelmed
by how many stitches there are, but pick one or 2 out and have fun with it i do just a bare bones 5 hole stitch nothing too fancy... one thing you need to watch out for is the thickness of the photo ... what i've done is cut off extra paper the length and width of where the stitching is going to be, and stitch through extra thickness so the pages don't fan/
the book covers don't lie parallel to eachother. you can also fold the edge to double the thickness, that looks nice too...

good luck !
john

ps. local art centers might have classes on making books, its worth looking around local and seeing if you can get a hands on course too ...
i was lucky that when i was a kid i was in boy scouts and there was a bookbinder doing conservation work a few miles away from me
and i got a merit badge and had a great time, then i did my sr project in high school making a book with him, then in college again ... all those things
i made with him were traditional closed spine books .. eventually when i started doing this stuff on my own i didn't have any equipment so i taught myself japanese binding
it is a lot of fun !

Thanks John. Do i understand that sometimes you bind prints directly and sometimes attach the print to a substrate of some kind and bind the substrate?

Steve

 

[removed account4]

hi steve

that's it exactly !
sometimes the photo paper is the actual page so the image and page are one in the same like a regular book or the photos are attached to something else ...