Fastest Lens for 6x9 Tech Camera?

[Fragomeni]

Hi all. I have a Horseman 980 which I love dearly. It just returned from Nippon Photo Clinic in NY where they did a spectacular overhaul. Anyway, I enjoy photographing with this camera very much, especially for my homebrew lens projects. Something I've been thinking about for a long while is getting the fastest lens that will fit the camera. I'm looking for something in the f2 to f2.5 range if it exists. I've been making some lenses using found elements and I've got a few that are f2 but these have specific characteristics that come along with being an optic not intended to be used the way I use them. I would be interested in knowing if there is a lens that will fit my 6x9 tech camera. I guess the equivalent of the Aero Ektar for 6x9. So does anyone know the fastest lens that will work? Thank you for your help!

 

[Fragomeni]

I think I may have just answered my own question. Looks like there was a 100mm f2.8 Planar made (for Linhoff I believe) which is supposedly the fastest 6x9 lens made. Can someone confirm this? Also, outside of this is there anything maybe not intended for 6x9 which will exceed this? The camera can handle up to a Copal 1 shutter.

Many of my projects deal with very fast lenses and most that I make don't fit into a shutter so I may need to just sell/trade the Horseman for an SLR with a shutter. Its a shame cause I love the little camera.

 

[NJS]

Looks like there was a 100mm f2.8 Planar made (for Linhoff I believe) which is supposedly the fastest 6x9 lens made. Can someone confirm this?

Yup.. not sure if it is the fastest, though.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I use the Schneider 105mm f:2.8 Xenotar on my 2x3 Technika V.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Francesco, you're up against the fact that there are no shutters a really fast 4" lens will fit. To use anything faster than an f/2.8 Xenotar or Planar or Heligon you'll need a 2x3 Speed Graphic, preferably a Pacemaker. These cameras have focal plane shutters so can be used with lenses in barrel.

Here are a few candidates for you, all in barrel:

4"/2.0 Taylor Hobson Anastigmat (2 1/4" x 2 1/4") as was sold for Vinten F.95 and AGI F.134 cameras. These are uncommon and cult items so not inexpensive. I have one, it covers 2x3 wide open. SKGrimes put mine on a 2x3 Pacemaker board.

There's also a 4"/1.8 TTH for the same cameras, I've never had one and don't know whether it would cover 2x3.

4"/1.9 Dallmeyer Super Six and Rareac. Cult items and very rare. There is a 6"/1.9 Super Six, covers 4x5. I've had one. Very much a cult lens.

100/2.5 Uran-27. Very short back focus, just makes infinity on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed when mounted in front of the board. I have one, not a bad lens but not as good as the 4"/2.0 TTH. Claimed coverage 113 mm. They turn up from time to time on eBay. SKGrimes put mine on a 2x3 Pacemaker board.

There's at least one Wild Heerbrugg 4"/1.4 Falconar on ebay now. You don't want one, covers only 6x6. You don't want a 100/1.4 Boyer Saphir or a 100/1.9 Saphir for the same reason. Boyer claims that the 110/1.9 Saphir fits a #3 shutter and will cover 2x3. Fast Saphirs are very rare and sell for silly money.

There's the 110/2 Zeiss (BRD) Planar for Hasselblad F. Very pricy and I don't know about coverage.

David, my lens diary is up on the French LF board. You may enjoy reading it. Currently in three pieces, http://www.galerie-photo.com/1-lens-6x9-dan-fromm.html , http://www.galerie-photo.com/2-lens-6x9-dan-fromm.html , http://www.galerie-photo.com/3-lens-6x9-dan-fromm.html . Sooner or later in one large piece.

 

[ic-racer]

The 105mm Professional Horseman is not to shabby in that respect. It is f3.5 and is relatively inexpensive and folds in the camera and focuses with the rangefinder. It is the 'standard' lens that came with these cameras. Yours did not come with one?

 

[Fragomeni]

Francesco, you're up against the fact that there are no shutters a really fast 4" lens will fit. To use anything faster than an f/2.8 Xenotar or Planar or Heligon you'll need a 2x3 Speed Graphic, preferably a Pacemaker. These cameras have focal plane shutters so can be used with lenses in barrel.

Here are a few candidates for you, all in barrel:

4"/2.0 Taylor Hobson Anastigmat (2 1/4" x 2 1/4") as was sold for Vinten F.95 and AGI F.134 cameras. These are uncommon and cult items so not inexpensive. I have one, it covers 2x3 wide open. SKGrimes put mine on a 2x3 Pacemaker board.

There's also a 4"/1.8 TTH for the same cameras, I've never had one and don't know whether it would cover 2x3.

4"/1.9 Dallmeyer Super Six and Rareac. Cult items and very rare. There is a 6"/1.9 Super Six, covers 4x5. I've had one. Very much a cult lens.

100/2.5 Uran-27. Very short back focus, just makes infinity on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed when mounted in front of the board. I have one, not a bad lens but not as good as the 4"/2.0 TTH. Claimed coverage 113 mm. They turn up from time to time on eBay. SKGrimes put mine on a 2x3 Pacemaker board.

There's at least one Wild Heerbrugg 4"/1.4 Falconar on ebay now. You don't want one, covers only 6x6. You don't want a 100/1.4 Boyer Saphir or a 100/1.9 Saphir for the same reason. Boyer claims that the 110/1.9 Saphir fits a #3 shutter and will cover 2x3. Fast Saphirs are very rare and sell for silly money.

There's the 110/2 Zeiss (BRD) Planar for Hasselblad F. Very pricy and I don't know about coverage.

David, my lens diary is up on the French LF board. You may enjoy reading it. Currently in three pieces, http://www.galerie-photo.com/1-lens-6x9-dan-fromm.html , http://www.galerie-photo.com/2-lens-6x9-dan-fromm.html , http://www.galerie-photo.com/3-lens-6x9-dan-fromm.html . Sooner or later in one large piece.

Thanks for this information. There are definitely some lenses I didn't know about which I'll have to check out. I have several Speed Graphics with focal plane shutters. I have one which is a 3x4 rebuilt to take 4x5 holders that I use frequently. For 6x9 I prefer the Horseman to the smaller Speed Graphics because it has much more movements and is far more solid in my hands. The only problem with the Horseman is that it doesn't have the focal plane shutter. If it did I think it might be pretty close to the perfect camera for me. I've considered having it re-engineered and machined to put a focal plane shutter in it but I don't have the resources for that. For the purposes of using this camera I'm looking for the fastest lens in a shutter (because of the lack of focal plane shutter) which will fit the camera. I use many barrel lenses on other cameras put I can't use them on this one. I also do a lot of work with found lenses and homebrew lenses, many of which have short focal lengths and would work well with the Horseman if it had the focal plane shutter. It is usually very difficult to mount most of these into shutters so I'm often unable to take advantage of them the way I want to.

The 105mm Professional Horseman is not to shabby in that respect. It is f3.5 and is relatively inexpensive and folds in the camera and focuses with the rangefinder. It is the 'standard' lens that came with these cameras. Yours did not come with one?

I have a 90mm f5.6 and 150mm f5.6 that came with mine with the cams. Perhaps someone here with an extra 105mm f3.5 and cam will chime in here

 

[ic-racer]

Keh has one: Dead Link Removed

 

[Fragomeni]

That one is without the cam. Useless if I ever wanted to use it with the rangefinder (which I very often do). Thanks though! I appreciate the heads up.

 

[ic-racer]

105 Cams show up all the time, it is the most common one. I don't think they are hard to come by. KEH currently lists two, maybe they will give you a deal if you buy the lens and cam together: Dead Link Removed

 

[Fragomeni]

Cams are specific to the lens. Horseman did this to try to match the precision and accuracy of Linhoff. At some point they stopped making cams and lenses together to match and started making bulk cams to fit their lens production but I still always try to find an original lens/cam set if I can.

 

[ic-racer]

The KEH lens listing shows a wrinkle finish board from the VHR era. The VHR came originally with 3 cams. 75, 105, and 180. Two were stored in the body of the camera. Because of this, the 75 and 180 lenses did not come with cams. The cams were available individually if you lost one of them (#27818, #27819 and #27812). They did list different product numbers for the 3.5 and 4.5 105 cams, but as far as I can tell the two are identical in shape and interchangeable.

If you are shooting wide open you may prefer the multicoated lenses over the older silver-bodies lenses also.

 

[Fragomeni]

The KEH lens listing shows a wrinkle finish board from the VHR era. The VHR came originally with 3 cams. 75, 105, and 180. Two were stored in the body of the camera. Because of this, the 75 and 180 lenses did not come with cams. The cams were available individually if you lost one of them (#27818, #27819 and #27812). They did list different product numbers for the 3.5 and 4.5 105 cams, but as far as I can tell the two are identical in shape and interchangeable.

If you are shooting wide open you may prefer the multicoated lenses over the older silver-bodies lenses also.

Thanks! This is why I love this forum. People share so much information its unbelievable! Thanks again!

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

David, my lens diary is up on the French LF board. You may enjoy reading it. Currently in three pieces, http://www.galerie-photo.com/1-lens-6x9-dan-fromm.html , http://www.galerie-photo.com/2-lens-6x9-dan-fromm.html , http://www.galerie-photo.com/3-lens-6x9-dan-fromm.html . Sooner or later in one large piece.

This is quite an impressive dissertation on lenses that work on a 2x3 Speed!

 

[Dan Fromm]

This is quite an impressive dissertation on lenses that work on a 2x3 Speed!

Thank you, David, for the kind words.

My shorter lenses can't be used on a 2x3 Speed but work on a 2x3 Crown or Century. One really needs two 2x3 Graphics, a Crown/Century for short lenses and a Speed for longer lenses and lenses in barrel.

I don't think I made the point that some of the shortish lenses that work on the Speed are more comfortable on it than on a Crown/Century. They make infinity with the front standard on the Crown/Century's hinge.

Francesco, a decent f/5.6 plasmat type normal lens for 2x3 shoots at least as well as my fast normal lenses in barrel from f/5.6 down. When I play selective focus games at near distances -- inside 10' -- I usually end up shooting around f/8. There's a hint.

Also, there are many fastish (f/4.5, f/3.5) tessar types with focal lengths around 4". I used a 101/4.5 Ektar for years.

I think you should stop fantasizing and asking questions and start trying lenses out. The first thing to do is find out how well your Horseman's RF works near its close focusing limit.

Cheers,

Dan

 

[ic-racer]

Thanks! This is why I love this forum. People share so much information its unbelievable! Thanks again!

I also wanted to point out a good Horseman reference. This 1980s catalog has a lot of good info, even though it is newer than your 960. Its nice to see someone else that likes these cameras, I think they are fantastic. http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/horseman_2.html

I got another new appreciation of my VHR when I was led down the path of a medium format shift-tilt lens on an extensive ebay search one day. I came to my senses realizing that the most expensive medium format tilt-shift lens barely does what the Horseman can do.

 

[Steve Goldstein]

There was also a 105mm f/3.5 Nikkor-M (same family as the 8/200, 9/300, and 9/450). It was discontinued quite a while ago, long before Nikon stopped making LF lenses. I've only ever seen a couple on eBay.

 

[erikg]

I also wanted to point out a good Horseman reference. This 1980s catalog has a lot of good info, even though it is newer than your 960. Its nice to see someone else that likes these cameras, I think they are fantastic. http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/horseman_2.html

I got another new appreciation of my VHR when I was led down the path of a medium format shift-tilt lens on an extensive ebay search one day. I came to my senses realizing that the most expensive medium format tilt-shift lens barely does what the Horseman can do.

It's true. T/S lenses are just an attempt to do a bit of what a view camera can do so easily. They usually cost a bunch more too, outside of the lens babies.