Faster, affordable 50 mm class lenses in Contax RF mount?

[Donald Qualls]

The title says it all -- now that I seem to have gotten a fully functional Kiev rangefinder body, I'm going to be looking for an affordable "normal" lens faster than the f/2 50 mm Jupiter 8 I already have. I know about the Summicron f/1.5 and its Soviet copy, but even the Soviet version of this lens is spendy compared to other Soviet cameras and optics (well, understandable, but still). Are there other lenses in this focal length range that are significantly faster than f/2 (say, f/1.7 or better, ideally f/1.5 or f/1.4), available in Contax/Kiev mount, that are more reasonably priced and good performers?

 

[ags2mikon]

Helios? f1.8 It is a 6e/4g construction, not sonar so little if any focus shift. Takes 40.5mm filters.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I guess that's a candidate -- hardly enough faster than the f/2 I have to be a first choice (I'm not really one to call out the subtle differences between this and that lens formula).

 

[btaylor]

+1 on the Helios 103. An excellent performer and inexpensive. AFAIK your only other low cost option would be the Jupiter 3, an excellent copy of the Zeiss 50mm f1.5.

 

[ags2mikon]

If I figure out how to post a pic I will. Of course it was with my sony nex 7 a'm ashamed to say. But it shows some of the lenses qualities.

 

[ags2mikon]

Lets try this. Shot wide open with just the light coming in through the windows.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Yeah, won't get any shots like that with a Kiev 2 -- minimum focus is around 1.2 meters (~ 4 feet). Still, seems nice, though I can't tell how much of the image circle your demonical camera actually uses...

 

[ags2mikon]

LOL "demonical camera" I could not have said it better. It came with all the best of digital camera features. Tiny, too many button to push accidentally, a PITA menu system to operate and a worthless tripod mount. I think it is about 28mm so only the best is used. It has a 1.5x crop factor. I use it more as a polaroid back for testing.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Anyone got a full frame image, at a reasonable distance, made with a Helios 103 to compare apples to apples?

 

[Donald Qualls]

low cost option would be the Jupiter 3,

I see those running as low as $100-$120 plus shipping from Ukraine. Might be an option if the various doctors leave me anything over the next few months...

 

[btaylor]

I see those running as low as $100-$120 plus shipping from Ukraine. Might be an option if the various doctors leave me anything over the next few months...

Didn’t know they were going that cheap! Lots of images from this lens around the various forums to take a look at and compare. At large apertures the J 3 and the Zeiss Sonnar have a unique, and to me, very attractive vintage look.

 

[guangong]

What about an f1.5 Sonnar? A beautiful one came with my bargain KEH camera.

 

[__Brian]

1) The Jupiter lenses are Sonnar formula, the Summicron is a double-Gauss type lens.

2) The Helios-103 is a 6 element in 4 group lens, similar to the Summicron.

This is with the Helios-103, on my Nikon S2.

Minimum Focus on the Kiev is 0.9m, 3feet.

The Jupiter-3 is a 50mm F1.5 Sonnar formula lens. Expect to pay ~$150 for one in good condition.

 

[__Brian]

This is with my 1934 5cm F2 Sonnar,



Your J-8 is based on this lens. If you got a good one, clean glass- expect results like this.

 

[__Brian]

Quality on the Jupiter-3 can be all over the place. Typically- they need to be adjusted (shimmed) to the individual camera. The Russian cameras and lenses wre not as standardized as Japanese and German RF cameras and lenses.

 

[Bill Burk]

1.5 Sonnar is a reason to shoot Contax in the first place.

 

[__Brian]

The "Best" lens available that will fit your camera is the West German Zeiss 50mm F1.5 Sonnar "T".

nikki_chinese_rest_4 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

Wide-open on my (modified) Nikon S2. Modified to work with Zeiss Contax mount lenses.

This Sonnar is also the easiest to fine-tune. Take barrel out of mount and use variable stand-off ring, no need to re-index the aperture after adjusting.
I'm having Skyllaney convert this particular lens to M-Mount. I bought another one for the S2. When looking for one, those with "Opton" in the name use Canada Balsam which turns out to be more durable than the later synthetic cement used in the later run of Sonnars. You get separation on those, but can often get them much cheaper. The separation has no effect that I can see in the images. Expect to pay $150 ~ $300 for one.

 

[Donald Qualls]

So, looks like I was understanding correctly, the only option that's significantly faster than my f/2 Jupiter 8 (which, BTW, gives very similar results to the example listed above for the f/2 Sonnar -- it's the standard against which I'm comparing anything else for this body/mount) and reasonably affordable (vs. the f/1.4 Nikkor, which would also require adjustment to focus correctly on a Kiev or Contax body) is the f/1.5 Sonnar/Jupiter-3. The Helios 103 is only 1/3 stop faster, though it gives a different rendering in OOF areas. These f/1.5 lenses are a bit more than 2/3 stop faster; enough to let me shoot hand held under streetlights or in office lighting with ISO 250 (say, Double-X, or Foma 400 at the speed many others use).

Looks like the medical profession will be snatching all my spare change for the next three months or so ("You have very good insurance," they tell me, while typing up the bill for $200+ after insurance for a routine semi-annual exam), but I hope to grab either a Sonnar or Jupiter-3 later in the fall or winter.

 

[__Brian]

1955 Jupiter-3, wide-open, Kodacolor 400, at Night

 

[brbo]

Sonnar 50/1,5 is a terrific lens. It can do it all, usable wide open...



, sharp enough when stopped down a bit...



You just have to know that focus shift IS a thing with this lens and focus accordingly to get the best result. Sacrifice first roll to get the feel of the focus shift.

 

[__Brian]

Focus Shift: at F2.8 and F4, focus and move back about 1"~2", for a lens optimized for F1.5.

Zeiss Jena 5cm Sonnars - The Magic of the Prewar Uncoated Sonnar - By Brian Sweeney

Interchangeable lens 35mm rangefinder cameras became popular almost 90 years ago when Leitz introduced the Leica II and Zeiss debuted the Contax I. Both companies brought out full lines of lenses, and dominated the market for 35mm format. The design philosophies of the two companies were very...

www.35mmc.com

 

[__Brian]

Jupiter-3 5cm F1.5 that I converted to Contax mount. I have a number of these, from left-over parts when converting CZJ Sonnars to Leica mount. The Contax mount has to be polished down to clear the Aperture Ring.


Test of a 1974 ZOMZ Jupiter-3 using an Amedeo Adapter on the M8. Wide-Open.



I nailed the shim on this one. I use an Amedeo adapter on an old Through the Lens viewer made for LTM lenses. I have a calibrated target (a Lamp) and the adapter marked with an N and a C on the distance scale, Nikon and Contax. Adjust the shim until the letter comes up on the index.

This one is "average", some cleaning marks on the front element- 9 of 10 Jupiter-3 lenses have them. I've gone through a couple hundred of them. I used to convert Sonnar lenses to Leica mount for $25 and left over parts. Got some good J-3's, and built up a collection of parts. The better J-3's I would convert to Contax mount, or buy a beat-up one in LTM and use the better optics in it.







The Marked "C" on this one means I shimmed it for the Contax. I also set some for the Nikon, put an "N" on them. The Bokeh is smoother than the Nikkor 5cm F1.4.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Nice capable glass.

 

[guangong]

1.5 Sonnar is a reason to shoot Contax in the first place.

It would seem like the simplest choice to me also.