FA-1027 developer

bill koechling · Mar 9, 2021

I am looking for anyone that is using Photographers Formulary FA-1027 developer (aka Arista Premium Liquid, aka Clayton F76+) I'd like to try this with some 35mm Tri-X 400 as well as 120 Tri-X 320 (both shot at or a bit below box speeds). I hope to dilute to 1+19 to flatten the contrast a bit. In the old days I used a lot of D-76 and still use some Rodinal but hope to find a compromise between the two to find finer grain but maintaining acutance.

I'm hoping that someone here can give me a useful starting development time for processing these. I find some conflicting information on these on the Massive Development Chart and hope to hear of some real-world examples.

I've been a professional photographer for about 45 years but I'm only recently re-entering my darkroom routines. I've shot the film, have the developer and hope my new friends here have some suggestions on development times.

Thanks!

Juan Valdenebro · Mar 9, 2021

I remember acutance, good shadow detail, and poor shelf life... In the end of that route, I did end up using TMY2 in FX-39 II, stored in small brown glass bottles filled to the brim...
Version II of FX-39, a recent product, keeps very well this way.
I have not tried Tri-X in FX-39 II, as this great developer was optimized for modern grain films.
Sorry to talk about different materials, but if you test both combos -after resolving your already shot rolls- you'll see the difference.
Good luck!

bill koechling · Mar 9, 2021

Juan Valdenebro said:
I remember acutance, good shadow detail, and poor shelf life... In the end of that route, I did end up using TMY2 in FX-39 II, stored in small brown glass bottles filled to the brim...
Version II of FX-39, a recent product, keeps very well this way.
I have not tried Tri-X in FX-39 II, as this great developer was optimized for modern grain films.
Sorry to talk about different materials, but if you test both combos -after resolving your already shot rolls- you'll see the difference.
Good luck!

Thanks for reminding me about Tmax. I never shot that much of it but it's a new day and I'm game to give it another try. I was usually able to get Tri-X to do what I wanted it to do but hoped to tame the grain a bit without dissolving it entirely.

Juan Valdenebro · Mar 9, 2021

bill koechling said:
shot at or a bit below box speeds

Phenidone usually gives a little more speed... From your words (TX at 400-320-250), seems like a perfect scenario for D-76 1+1. Xtol for even less grain...
If you shot at 200, Perceptol/Mic-X at 1+1 can look great too.
Official time for 400TX exposed at 400, 20Celsius, F-76+ (1+9) is 6m 15s...

Juan Valdenebro · Mar 9, 2021

bill koechling said:
Thanks for reminding me about Tmax. I never shot that much of it but it's a new day and I'm game to give it another try. I was usually able to get Tri-X to do what I wanted it to do but hoped to tame the grain a bit without dissolving it entirely.

Bill, TMY2 is possibly the best film ever. It's worth a try. And current TX has present grain, but smaller than before: I think it changed close to a decade ago...
The balance of tone, grain and sharpness, if you exposed TX400&320 at box speed or for a little more light, is great with D-76 1+1... Last week I wanted to check if 1+2 would give me what you want: acutance from grain that's not too dissolved... What I found: I didn't like 1+2 for 35mm, but it's OK for 120... But 1+1 is great for both formats, so I forgot 1+2... And tone of Tri-X in D-76 1+1 is superb. Hard to imagine anything more photographic.
Good night.

bill koechling · Mar 10, 2021

Juan Valdenebro said:
Bill, TMY2 is possibly the best film ever. It's worth a try. And current TX has present grain, but smaller than before: I think it changed close to a decade ago...
The balance of tone, grain and sharpness, if you exposed TX400&320 at box speed or for a little more light, is great with D-76 1+1... Last week I wanted to check if 1+2 would give me what you want: acutance from grain that's not too dissolved... What I found: I didn't like 1+2 for 35mm, but it's OK for 120... But 1+1 is great for both formats, so I forgot 1+2... And tone of Tri-X in D-76 1+1 is superb. Hard to imagine anything more photographic.
Good night.

Thanks again for your help. Actually in all the years I used D-76 with Tri-X it was ALWAYS at 1+1. I've already a bottle of Arista Premium that I'll probably use. I probably still shoot enough film so I won't be too concerned with shelf life. I also prefer to not mix powdered chemistry but there is something to be said for the call of the familiar. I will post here my results with the Arista developer. Thanks again, Juan.

Paul Howell · Mar 10, 2021

I used a lot of Clayton F76+ in the late 80s to the mid 90s, the photo shop I used sold it to me at the same price it sold it to the local high schools. Other than a short shelf life once opened I lked it, got full speed from most films. I shot Tmax100, 400, Trix and Plus X with good results. I used MCM 100 for many years, the cost has gone up to around $48.00 a gallon I just bought 5 12oz bottles of Freestyles house version, should arrive in the next couple of days. I have a starting time for Foma 200 at 1:19 which I will tweak. Clayton makes or made a developer for Tmax films F60, unable to find it at Freestyle? .

bill koechling · Mar 10, 2021

Paul Howell said:
I used a lot of Clayton F76+ in the late 80s to the mid 90s, the photo shop I used sold it to me at the same price it sold it to the local high schools. Other than a short shelf life once opened I lked it, got full speed from most films. I shot Tmax100, 400, Trix and Plus X with good results. I used MCM 100 for many years, the cost has gone up to around $48.00 a gallon I just bought 5 12oz bottles of Freestyles house version, should arrive in the next couple of days. I have a starting time for Foma 200 at 1:19 which I will tweak. Clayton makes or made a developer for Tmax films F60, unable to find it at Freestyle? .

Thank you, Paul. I'll let you know how my experiments with Tri-X and my Arista Premium go. After all these years I thought that by now i'd be finished experimenting!

bill koechling · Mar 10, 2021

bill koechling said:
I am looking for anyone that is using Photographers Formulary FA-1027 developer (aka Arista Premium Liquid, aka Clayton F76+) I'd like to try this with some 35mm Tri-X 400 as well as 120 Tri-X 320 (both shot at or a bit below box speeds). I hope to dilute to 1+19 to flatten the contrast a bit. In the old days I used a lot of D-76 and still use some Rodinal but hope to find a compromise between the two to find finer grain but maintaining acutance.

I'm hoping that someone here can give me a useful starting development time for processing these. I find some conflicting information on these on the Massive Development Chart and hope to hear of some real-world examples.

I've been a professional photographer for about 45 years but I'm only recently re-entering my darkroom routines. I've shot the film, have the developer and hope my new friends here have some suggestions on development times.

Thanks!

I processed a single roll of 120 TriX 320 (shot at 320 and 200) this morning using Premium Arista (liquid) at 1+19 at 75˚ for 11 minutes with agitation 10 seconds each minute. Looking under the loupe I have to say it worked out quite well. There is lots of detail in the shadow areas and NO highlights were blown out. (Some of the scenes were sun on trees and snow.) I'm going to process some more film before scanning anything.

A couple of months ago I discovered that there is some significant fungus on my Rodagon enlarging lenses so I won't be printing until I get some new lenses. For now I'll shoot & develop.

Thanks again to those who made suggestions for various developers & film combinations That was helpful.

Paul Howell · Mar 13, 2021

I just developed my first roll, 35mm my last roll of Ultrafine 400, shot at 400, 7 1/2 at 1:9, look really good, I forgot how good F76+ is, right balance of grain, speed, shadow detail and acutance, very much like the working characteristics of D76, perhaps with a little more speed. As it happen my 35mm single roll SS tanks takes 10 OZ, or one roll, 1:9 and 10Oz. If I shoot more than a roll will use my Unicolor film drum.

bill koechling · Mar 13, 2021

That sounds good. I'm glad you've "reconnected" with F76+. I've now processed 5 rolls of Tri-X with it (Arista Premium Liquid - labeled) and like it a lot. For two rolls I suspect I used an unintentionally too-dilute mix and it came out under developed. I've been shooting and processing and haven't had time to scan anything yet but under the loupe they look great. I've used the same two-roll and four-roll stainless steel tanks for the last 45 years.

Paul Howell · Mar 13, 2021

I was told by the shop I bought Clayton brand that Clayton was the main supplier of the U.S Navy for shipboard use, this was the 80s, as Clayton had line of low toxicity and order developers, stop baths, and fixers. I use many Clayton products for almost a decade, I now use P90 for prints, ordered stop bath, but continued to use T4 for film fixer, but use standard fix for FB paper.

Zathras · Mar 14, 2021

Paul Howell said:
I was told by the shop I bought Clayton brand that Clayton was the main supplier of the U.S Navy for shipboard use, this was the 80s, as Clayton had line of low toxicity and order developers, stop baths, and fixers. I use many Clayton products for almost a decade, I now use P90 for prints, ordered stop bath, but continued to use T4 for film fixer, but use standard fix for FB paper.

That's interesting. When I was on the USS John F. Kennedy, we used all Kodak film, paper and chemistry in the ship's Photo Lab. I got out in August of 1981, so this must have been later.

cptrios · Mar 18, 2021

I just bought a bottle of this myself (under the Arista Premium label). The shop I'd had develop my film before I got my own tank uses it, and I really like their results. But I also really like Kentmere 100, for which there's no info anywhere with this developer. Any idea how I can estimate a time for it? I'm still pretty new to developing, so I've got no idea how to do that!

bill koechling · Mar 18, 2021

I've never used Kentmere 100 but I do see a single reference to F76+ being used for Kentmere 400. Like so many others I've found the Massive Development Chart helpful for finding a starting point.
https://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=%Kentmere%&Developer=&mdc=Search

Here's the single reference to F76+ which is the same as Arista Premium Liquid Developer.

bill koechling · Mar 18, 2021

You might be able to extrapolate temp/times for your 100 speed film based on temp/times for the 400 speed film listed using other developers such as D-76 1:1.

cptrios · Mar 18, 2021

Yeah, I saw that on the Massive Dev chart, and also considered trying to extrapolate time differences for other films in other developers. The problem with that (other than that I have no idea what I'm doing) is, with D76 for example, whether to compare it to stock solution or 1+1. Comparing the 100 vs 400 times based on stock, you'd get 5.75 minutes in F76. Comparing 1+1, though, you'd get 6.63. I suppose I could split the difference? It's not like Kentmere is that expensive...

Paul Howell · Mar 18, 2021

Zathras said:
That's interesting. When I was on the USS John F. Kennedy, we used all Kodak film, paper and chemistry in the ship's Photo Lab. I got out in August of 1981, so this must have been later.

Or much earlier or just a sales pitch. In the late 80s in to the 90s most of the local high schools were buying Clayton from PhotForum as was one of the Community Colleges, I taught a few classes at Scottsdale CC and they used a variety of chemistry but not Clayton.

bill koechling · Mar 18, 2021

cptrios said:
Yeah, I saw that on the Massive Dev chart, and also considered trying to extrapolate time differences for other films in other developers. The problem with that (other than that I have no idea what I'm doing) is, with D76 for example, whether to compare it to stock solution or 1+1. Comparing the 100 vs 400 times based on stock, you'd get 5.75 minutes in F76. Comparing 1+1, though, you'd get 6.63. I suppose I could split the difference? It's not like Kentmere is that expensive...

I generally don't like development times that short for that very reason. There's not much margin for error. I have mostly been using the Arista Premium at 1+19 with a bit longer development times. The Chart suggests a development temperature of 75˚ for 1+19 development. Also, at that dilution it does what D-76 does at 1:1 (compared to straight D-76), it minimizes grain while maintaining acutance.

cptrios · Mar 18, 2021

bill koechling said:
I generally don't like development times that short for that very reason. There's not much margin for error. I have mostly been using the Arista Premium at 1+19 with a bit longer development times. The Chart suggests a development temperature of 75˚ for 1+19 development. Also, at that dilution it does what D-76 does at 1:1 (compared to straight D-76), it minimizes grain while maintaining acutance.

Interesting - are you increasing time slightly from the 1+19 recipe because you're at a lower temperature than 75, or are you using 1+19 and increasing time slightly from the 1+9 recipe? I feel like that might be a really stupid question.

bill koechling · Mar 18, 2021

I hope I didn't confuse the issue. I'm processing Tri-x shot at 400 (some a little less) using the Arista Premium at 1+19 at 75˚ for 11 minutes as suggested in the Chart. It's the recipe that I prefer to the 1+9 at 68˚ for 6 minutes. I just don't like a development time that short.

bill koechling · Mar 19, 2021

Here's an example of the minimal grain I've found processing my Tri-X (shot at 400) using Arista Premium @ 75˚ for 11 minutes diluted 1+19. I'm pleased with how the few rolls I've shot turned out processed this way.

Paul Howell · Mar 19, 2021

Very nice, I think I fine tune my time and ISO for Foma 200 at 1:19, the one roll I process at 1:19 seems a little thin, will know for sure when I print tomorrow.

Roseha · Apr 10, 2021

I was processing a few rolls last year with Stearman Press' version of Clayton F76 plus, and was directed by Clayton to Old School Photo Lab in New Hampshire for a question on processing times (I was wondering about Rollei Ortho Plus). They said that they use F76 plus for all their black and white and suggested using TMax developer times as a guide (I imagine from the Massive Dev Chart). I haven't processed much myself since but I hope this helps. I do have an unopened bottle of the Arista Premium version that I was thinking of trying. How long do the open bottles tend to last?

cptrios · Apr 11, 2021

Hey, I heard about it from Old School Photo too! I really liked how some Delta 100 that they did turned out. As far as shelf life goes, I've read that it's pretty limited once the bottle is opened. I got a 1l bottle from B&H because it was cheaper to do that than pay $10 shipping from Freestyle...can't imagine I could possibly use the whole thing in time. I have a feeling that bottle is going to remain sealed for quite a while...

FA-1027 developer

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