F80 scratches film

[midlife crisis]

I have two Nikon F80's (N80) and both have developed a nasty habit of scratching film.
My original one only did it after many rolls. I had it repaired by Jessops, who replaced every thing, and that one is now functioning well.
I bought a second body on ebay and now this is scratching film as well.

I try to keep the film chamber clean but it does seem to let in a lot of dust.

Has anyone else experienced this problem with this model?

Regards
N
:confused:

 

[ras351]

Are you using the default/fast rewind or the quiet/slow rewind? Are the scratches on the base or emulsion side of the film? I had some scratches with an F70 which went away when I slowed down the rewind speed. So far the F80 has been okay although I have set it to slow/quiet and it is somewhat newer which probably helps.

Roger.

 

[midlife crisis]

Roger,
Thanks for this. I will give it a try.
Regards
N

 

[FrankB]

I had a similar problem on an F80 when I first bought it. Replaced under warranty by Jessops, no problems with this body.

 

[PhotoJim]

Check the pressure plate on the camera back. Any little raised sharp place on this back can cause scratches.

 

[filmamigo]

I bought a used F80 that was in as-new condition, and it scratches film.

The scratches are on the base side (I think -- emulsion faces the lens right?)

To test I have run a bunch of different cheap film through it, and checking the film without processing it. (To remove processing as a source of scratches.) When you open the back of the camera half-way through a roll, there are no scratches -- so that removes the pressure plate from the equation. Shooting through the rest of the roll and rewinding, the scratches appear. Changing the rewind speed hasn't affected the scratching. I meticulously cleaned the camera myself, and had it professionally CLA'd. They worked the camera over three times, and it would still sporadically scratch for them.

I have since learned that Nikon changed the design of the take-up reel tongue (with the little rollers.) The shape is slightly different, the spring is slightly different. I'm afraid to order the part and do it myself, so I'll likely have it changed by a Nikon specialist (or Nikon themselves.)

It's tough because I love my F80, but after a few rolls, the scratching was so deep that it would show up in prints and scans. Leaves a sour taste...

 

[midlife crisis]

I bought a used F80 that was in as-new condition, and it scratches film.

The scratches are on the base side (I think -- emulsion faces the lens right?)

To test I have run a bunch of different cheap film through it, and checking the film without processing it. (To remove processing as a source of scratches.) When you open the back of the camera half-way through a roll, there are no scratches -- so that removes the pressure plate from the equation. Shooting through the rest of the roll and rewinding, the scratches appear. Changing the rewind speed hasn't affected the scratching. I meticulously cleaned the camera myself, and had it professionally CLA'd. They worked the camera over three times, and it would still sporadically scratch for them.

I have since learned that Nikon changed the design of the take-up reel tongue (with the little rollers.) The shape is slightly different, the spring is slightly different. I'm afraid to order the part and do it myself, so I'll likely have it changed by a Nikon specialist (or Nikon themselves.)

It's tough because I love my F80, but after a few rolls, the scratching was so deep that it would show up in prints and scans. Leaves a sour taste...

Thanks for your input. I cannot see any defect in the pressure plate suspect that the take reel tongue is where the problem is. I have yet to develop my test film with the slow rewind but after that it is down the tensioner. I reckon it should not be too difficult to change but I'm not sure if Nikon will sell parts direct to the public. Like you though I feel this is a great shame as, apart from a mirror lock-up, I want for nothing else in a 35mm.

Regards
N

 

[canuhead]

I have since learned that Nikon changed the design of the take-up reel tongue (with the little rollers.) The shape is slightly different, the spring is slightly different.

I'm having some trouble understanding how the takeup spool could be scratching your film. After the first few frames, it's film on film contact. Is the scratch always on a certain part of the roll (top, middle, bottom etc) ?

On the Nikons I just looked at (F3p and F), the only contact the camera has with the film base is the plate which you've examined. One suggestion would be to take a cottonball and run it gently over the plate in every direction. If there's something that could scratch your film, it'll snag some cotton.

I'm liking the plate as the culprit and the offending bit might be angled so that it might only scratch when film is rewound.

Good luck,

Fred

 

[midlife crisis]

take up spool

Fred,
There is a small arm with two wheels which presumably keeps the film taught as it is wound on. Like the pressure plate the wheels are always in contact with the film. They are in about the right place and I suspect would be really good at collecting any dust/grit particles that may get in.

Thanks for the cotton wool suggestion. I may just give that a try when I get home.

Regards
N

 

[canuhead]

If you have any photos of the rollers,it might help me figure out what's happening. On my F3, there's one roller (like a Horseman or Graflex pin) on the cassette side but it's made such that the ends are raised and is the only thing contacting the film. On the takeup side there is a roller with teeth that engage the sprocket holes.

Just had a thought, is the arm w/ wheels attached to the film back (facing base) or on the camera body (facing emulsion) ?

If it is these rollers, are they moving freely ? If they're spinning, probably not the cause but if they don't spin, you may be right and this could be the source of the scratching.

This is just as frustrating as isolating film holder light leaks

Fred

 

[midlife crisis]

spools

Fred, Sorry I don't have a picture at the moment. If I remember I'll attempt to post one once I get home.

The arm is attached to the body and the wheels rest on the take-up-spool when there is no film loaded.

Hope this helps you visualise what is happening.

Regards
N

 

[canuhead]

I think I found an illustration of the arm. It's a small thing right, kinda midway ? If it is what I found, I can see why this should be looked at more closely. Maybe try and give the wheels a spin and see if there's any sticking.

<thinks...>


Actually, if the film scratches and the arm/wheels lineup, there's your problem.

 

[midlife crisis]

Wheels

Fred,
Clearly you have the correct diagram as you now understand our suspiscion. Now all I really have to do is persuade Nikon or a dealer to supply the part and then be brave enough to fit it.

Regards
N

 

[canuhead]

I would still try and see if it can be fixed without Nikon's help. It could simply be a matter of spinning the wheels until they feel loose and free ( I know, broken record...). I'd stay away from any type of lube. Like a copal shutter, it might be sticking from lack of use.

On the other hand, if it looks like a couple of screws, have at it !

Last thought, there's no chance the end of a spring has worked loose and is sticking up or down is it ?


Good luck,

Fred

 

[midlife crisis]

Wheels

Fred,
As you say it looks fairly simple to take off but and it ain't much use without being fixed so I have little to lose. I will develop the slow rewind film first and if that doesn't fix it I'll take a screwdriver to it. I'd rather find the cause rather than simply replace all moving parts. It does seem that this may be a problem with some early F80's. I will post the fix if and when I find one.

Thanks for all your advice
Regards
N