F76 or another liquid for Ilford trad-grain films?

[Autonerd]

Clayton F-76+ just came up in another thread... I love D-76 but despite mixing it, and I'm wondering about alternatives. (I primarily shoot FP4, HP5 and Kentmere 100 in 35mm and 120.)

I've tried HC-110 and it's certainly easier, but for various and sundry reasons I don't love it for HP5+.

I have tried XTol, it's easier to mix without needing to heat the water, but still not as easy as liquid... I always seem to spill some, and somehow or another I wind up with at least one dog hair in the mix.

So, what about Clayton F-76? I've read that it behaves like D-76, but not exactly Also not sure if the 1:19 is equivalent to D-76 stock or 1:1 (I prefer stock for pushed HP5+). Anyone have experience using it?

And what about Ilford DD-X? Though it pains me to get away from Kodak chemicals (I'm a Rochester boy), it is recommended for all three films I shoot.

TIA for your thoughts!

Aaron

 

[foc]

I have no experience of Clayton F76 but plenty with D76.

If you are thinking of giving Ilford a try, then why not give Ilfosol 3 a go? I have used it for years at 1+14 and was very happy with it.

I always decanted the 500ml into 100ml glass bottles. Never had a problem with storage. In fact I got over 12 months from a partially filled bottle, topped with gas.

 

[GregY]

If you have access to it.... Pyrocat HD (in glycol). liquid & very economical. 5ml to 500 ml water perfect for a small tank of 120 or 2x 35mm.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Kentmere 100 is my preferred film for B&W reversal in D-19. I've never tried, but I'd wager phenisol would give similar results.

 

[gone]

I love that developer. Very easy to mix up, 1:8 or 1:9 work well for me w/ 35mm. I've used it w/ Foma 400 shot at an EI of 250 and developed for 7.40 minutes, and you should see the negs from Delta 100 at EI 64 in it. Gorgeous.

 

[Paul Howell]

I use F76+ with Tmax, Trix Kentmare, Double X, Foma, I find the grain and tones with F76+ to be quite nice, very close to D76 stock. With my newer bodies shooting in matrix metering mode I shoot at box speed, well Foma at 320. If you like HP5 and D76 or ID 11 then I suspect you will like F76+ at 1:9, there are times listed on the MDC F76+ at 1:14 which should enhance the acutance effect but more pronounced grain, similar to D76 at 1:1. It is also sold by Freestyle under their house label and in a small bottle so your not out a large chunk of change if you don't like it.

 

[Steven Lee]

If you're looking for a liquid developer for Ilford films, I suggest taking a look at Ilfotec HC. Despite online speculation, it's not an exact copy of HC-110. It's marvelous for HP5+ in particular. Regarding your DD-X question: it worked OK with Delta and T-Max films and it completely butchers HP5+ by making it look grainier than it is and "lifeless".

it pains me to get away from Kodak chemicals (I'm a Rochester boy),

Kodak-branded chemicals have nothing to do with Kodak, they are made by Sino Promise Group based in Hong Kong, they are for Hong Kong boys.

 

[TomR55]

I use Claytons F76 Plus on a variety of films--Kodak TMax 100 and 400, as well as TriX, and Ilford HP5 and FP4, in particular.

Using the recommended dilution, 1 + 9, and times provided by the Massive Development Chart for these films give me excellent results. I keep it tightly capped, in the original bottle, in a cool, dark place and find that it lasts two to three months. A previous post mentions that it is also available in smaller quantities as a Freestyle product.

Because I've only used the 1 + 9 dilution, I don't have times/suggestions for alternative dilutions (although I do see the the MDC provides a 1 + 14 dilution for HP5 at 250 ASA).

 

[pentaxuser]

The question I'd want to ask in your position is: Is F76 different enough from D76 for you to see the difference and if it is, can those who have used both say or better still demonstrate with comparison pics what those differences are

I am not sure how F76 will help with hairs in the developer

pentaxuser

 

[warden]

Autonerd, have you tried Ilfosol 3? I like it a lot on traditional grain films.

 

[gone]

Is F76 different enough from D76 for you to see the difference

Well, the F76 Plus has always worked and never looked like root beer, so I'd say that's one big difference. It keeps longer too once opened. As for seeing any difference between the two w/ the photos themselves, that tends to be minimal. D76 at stock solution is a little more contrasty, it has a little more bite, which is why I use a 1:8 dilution for F76 Plus vs 1:9.

Any visual differences between the two developers, using the films I shoot, can easily be changed by varying the temp and agitation protocol.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks for the reply. has F76 always had longer keeping qualities that D76 and does the current version of D76 still look like root beer or was that a temporary problem that has now been fixed? I can understand why looking like root beer may put users off but if it still looks like root beer does that affect its developing qualities?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

The packaging problems with a number of the Kodak developers were dealt with, but the entire supply has since been totally disrupted by a change of ownership and supply source followed almost immediately by the pandemic.
And whether or not Sino Promise is China based, most of the people who actually work for the business around the world are former Kodak Alaris and usually former Kodak employees - Eastman Kodak or various international subsidiaries, like Kodak Ltd.

 

[Paul Howell]

The formulas are based on Kodak, the only major change has been HC110. D76 clones can be found a savings as well, Freestyle and Photo Wearhouse (Ultafine) sell a couple as does Photographer's Formulary which has been improved, it's the one I last used as I get it in a liter size.

 

[Todd Niccole]

I've tried Clayton F76 and was pleased with it. It produced noticeable smooth grain with HP5. I can't say how directly it compares to D76. DD-X on the other hand is a horrible developer in my opinion. It makes everything more grainy.

 

[Autonerd]

Hi all -- thanks as always for the replies.

I have not tried Pyrocat or Ilfosol-3 -- I will look into both of them (though the HP5 Data Sheet doesn't have a time for Ilfosol-3 at 1600, which I do frequently -- I wonder what's up with that. Er, what's up with Ilford not recommending it, not with me shooting HP5 at 1600...).

I haven't tried Ilford HC, and my concern with it is the short developing times when used at the 1:31 dilution (same reason I don't like HC-110 for HP5 -- and if I use dilution H to extend development time, the negs look a little flat). Then again... maybe I just need to get over that and get used to developing in 5 mins or less.


I'm surprised to hear the negative responses about DD-X, with Ilford recommending it on their film data sheets -- but I'll take your word over theirs, as you aren't the one selling developer!

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if I should concentrate (heh) on HC-110 and try those shorter developing cycles. I'm certainly happy with its performance on other films. On the other hand... Ilford films, Ilford developers? Hrm.

Aaron

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Clayton F-76+ just came up in another thread... I love D-76 but despite mixing it, and I'm wondering about alternatives. (I primarily shoot FP4, HP5 and Kentmere 100 in 35mm and 120.)

I've tried HC-110 and it's certainly easier, but for various and sundry reasons I don't love it for HP5+.

I have tried XTol, it's easier to mix without needing to heat the water, but still not as easy as liquid... I always seem to spill some, and somehow or another I wind up with at least one dog hair in the mix.

So, what about Clayton F-76? I've read that it behaves like D-76, but not exactly Also not sure if the 1:19 is equivalent to D-76 stock or 1:1 (I prefer stock for pushed HP5+). Anyone have experience using it?

And what about Ilford DD-X? Though it pains me to get away from Kodak chemicals (I'm a Rochester boy), it is recommended for all three films I shoot.

TIA for your thoughts!

Aaron

FP4+ works well in Rodinal, but I prefer D76 1+1. if dissolving it is an issue, I suggest to get a used magnetic stirrer with a heating plate. They ae great and make mixing your own processing solutions from bulk chemicals fun.

 

[Paul Howell]

Tmax developer and DDX were designed for T grained films. The thought being that due to the smaller grain Tmax and Delta films an acutance type developer would increased perceived sharpness without the gain that would be more noticeable show up in a traditional film.

 

[Todd Niccole]

Hi all -- thanks as always for the replies.

I have not tried Pyrocat or Ilfosol-3 -- I will look into both of them (though the HP5 Data Sheet doesn't have a time for Ilfosol-3 at 1600, which I do frequently -- I wonder what's up with that. Er, what's up with Ilford not recommending it, not with me shooting HP5 at 1600...).

I haven't tried Ilford HC, and my concern with it is the short developing times when used at the 1:31 dilution (same reason I don't like HC-110 for HP5 -- and if I use dilution H to extend development time, the negs look a little flat). Then again... maybe I just need to get over that and get used to developing in 5 mins or less.


I'm surprised to hear the negative responses about DD-X, with Ilford recommending it on their film data sheets -- but I'll take your word over theirs, as you aren't the one selling developer!

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if I should concentrate (heh) on HC-110 and try those shorter developing cycles. I'm certainly happy with its performance on other films. On the other hand... Ilford films, Ilford developers? Hrm.

Aaron

Ilford says Ilfosol is fomulated primarily for medium speed films(ISO100). I've tried it but I didn't find it performing better(actually worse) over other standard developers. I don't think it's intended for push processing. Microphen is great for pushing and produces noticeably finer grain. I like it better than its counterpart Xtol for that purpose. Ilford HC is ridiculously expensive. I also remember I didn't like LegacyPro L110; I was a big fan of HC-110 back in the day with many films.

I have developed films as short as two minutes with good results due to my low desert hot climate. But adjustment due to temperature isn't linear at really short times. You will lose some small density at such short times so, you will need to experiment on further adjusting(increasing) the development to compensate. In such a case, I may add 30 seconds to a two or three minute dev. time. In the three plus to four minute range the adjustment is small to maybe not really necessary.

 

[Autonerd]

In the three plus to four minute range the adjustment is small to maybe not really necessary.

Interesting -- so with a 5-minute dev time (which is HP5+ at Dilution B) you wouldn't adjust.

I think I need to experiment a bit more with HC-110 and HP5+!

Aaron

 

[MattKing]

I haven't tried Ilford HC, and my concern with it is the short developing times when used at the 1:31 dilution (same reason I don't like HC-110 for HP5 -- and if I use dilution H to extend development time, the negs look a little flat). Then again... maybe I just need to get over that and get used to developing in 5 mins or less.

Sometimes the problem with dilution H is that people use it in tanks that are too small to ensure there is enough developer concentrate in there to avoid developer exhaustion.
Based on Kodak's capacity recommendations, you should have at least 378 ml of dilution H in your tank for every 120/135-36 roll.
I've had good results from Jason Brunner's 1+ 49 dilution for HC-110, which is effectively the same as dilution E (1 + 47). You can find more info here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/resources/hc110-made-simple.220/

 

[Steven Lee]

Ilford HC is ridiculously expensive.

Todd, do a bit of math. In terms of cost per roll, Ilfotec HC is the cheapest developer sold by Ilford. It is definitely true for 1+47 dilution, and quite possibly it's true even for 1+31.

 

[Todd Niccole]

Todd, do a bit of math. In terms of cost per roll, Ilfotec HC is the cheapest developer sold by Ilford. It is definitely true for 1+47 dilution, and quite possibly it's true even for 1+31.

OK, fair enough. But I always wondered why Ilford HC was far more expensive than Kodak or other concentrates.

 

[Ernst-Jan]

Ilford says Ilfosol is fomulated primarily for medium speed films(ISO100). I've tried it but I didn't find it performing better(actually worse) over other standard developers. I don't think it's intended for push processing.

I have been developing quite some HP5+ in Ilfosol. Boxspeed with 1+14 and pushed to 800 at 1+9.
I'm pleased with the results.

Ilfosol 3

various films developped in Ilford Ilfosol 3

flickr.com

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Ilford says Ilfosol is fomulated primarily for medium speed films(ISO100). I've tried it but I didn't find it performing better(actually worse) over other standard developers. I don't think it's intended for push processing. Microphen is great for pushing and produces noticeably finer grain. I like it better than its counterpart Xtol for that purpose. Ilford HC is ridiculously expensive. I also remember I didn't like LegacyPro L110; I was a big fan of HC-110 back in the day with many films.

I have developed films as short as two minutes with good results due to my low desert hot climate. But adjustment due to temperature isn't linear at really short times. You will lose some small density at such short times so, you will need to experiment on further adjusting(increasing) the development to compensate. In such a case, I may add 30 seconds to a two or three minute dev. time. In the three plus to four minute range the adjustment is small to maybe not really necessary.

Film development times below four minutes are unreliable and can lead to uneven development.