F6 and rechargable batteries

[drmoss_ca]

CR123 batteries aren't always easy to find these days. I used to have an MB-40, but eight AA cells and that thing made the camera very heavy. I did buy some Watson brand 3.1v rechargable Li-Ion batteries from Amazon, and they work OK but are only 400mAH and maybe good for two films before their premature death and need for recharging. Recently I saw 1300mAH CR123-replacing Li-Ion batteries and bought two sets, thinking they would last a lot longer. I waited seven weeks for them to come from China, and find they say in tiny print that they are 3.7v. Alkaline CR123 batteries are 3v. The Watson's are indeed 3.1v according to my multimeter. I'm charging up the new ones and will test them when fully charged.
I'm assuming the advice of the sages here would be NOT to try them in the camera if they are actually 3.7v.

 

[Chan Tran]

I think it's OK to use the 3.7V battery because the CR123 are lithium and no alkaline. Its voltage is more than 3V. If you measure a new one it's about 3.4 or 3.6V. However, a 3.7V li-ion battery freshly charged would measure about 4.2V with no load.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...I did buy some Watson brand 3.1v rechargable Li-Ion batteries from Amazon, and they work OK but are only 400mAH and maybe good for two films before their premature death and need for recharging...

First, I've found that stuff sold on amazon is often old and deficient. In my less than one year old F6, I'm using Watson CR123As purchased from B&H

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._CR123A_Rechargeable_Lithium_Ion_Battery.html​

and get around four rolls per charge. Second, while my shooting style is more "view camera" than "machine gun," and I've never needed more than one pair of those Watsons in a day, I also carry an additional four fully charged ones in my pocket. They're in this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._slcr123tb_slimline_cr123_battery_holder.html​

It shouldn't take long for someone who shoots a lot of film to recover the cost of six batteries and the carrier, especially compared to constantly buying primary cells.

 

[drmoss_ca]

I think it's OK to use the 3.7V battery because the CR123 are lithium and no alkaline. Its voltage is more than 3V. If you measure a new one it's about 3.4 or 3.6V. However, a 3.7V li-ion battery freshly charged would measure about 4.2V with no load.

You're spot on. Fully charged my cheapo meter says they are at all but 5v. I know the voltage will drop under load but I don't dare risk the electronics in my F6.

 

[wiltw]

Lithium batteries single use have been around a very long time, but they are NOT the same as 'Lithium Ion' rechargeable. Lithium batteries are primary batteries that are also referred to as lithium-metal batteries.

Just as alkaline 1.5V had lithium 1.5V around for a very long time (where the lithium 1.5V was created to have a very long 10 year shelf life, for emergency position beacons for boats), the CR123 is simply a 'double cell 1.5V Lithium metal in one package'

...and Lithium Ion are nominal 0.7V too high, where electronic item is designed for 3.0V operation.

Despite not being rechargeable, lithium batteries have a greater capacity than their lithium-ion counterparts.

 

[Huss]

If you're getting only 2 rolls out of the 3V Watsons they are defective. Watson acknowledged that and swapped mine out for a new set, which last over 20 rolls of 36exp in my F6.

 

[Chan Tran]

Standard CR123a battery is rated at 1500mAH so the 400mAH battery has too little charge.

 

[Huss]

Standard CR123a battery is rated at 1500mAH so the 400mAH battery has too little charge.

Except I am using them and getting 20+ rolls per charge out of them.

So should I believe you, or my actual experience?

 

[Chan Tran]

Except I am using them and getting 20+ rolls per charge out of them.

So should I believe you, or my actual experience?

And I do not believe you.

 

[Moose22]

Obviously, Huss, your experience is first person. But not only that, you aren't anomalous.

I've run more than a couple dozen rolls using non-rechargeable and they're still going strong. Just because rechargeable might not have as much capacity doesn't mean there's any reason why someone can't typically get 20 rolls or more, and I've read elsewhere on the internets of people getting 15-25 rolls from rechargeable -- which are typically rated more like 800mAH not 400 like chantran says.

In short, If I can get over 30 rolls of very intermittent use out of 1500maH, surely a normal user can expect close to 20 out of 800 mAH of healthy battery.

 

[Huss]

And I do not believe you.

Says the man with zero experience.

 

[Huss]

Obviously, Huss, your experience is first person. But not only that, you aren't anomalous.

I've run more than a couple dozen rolls using non-rechargeable and they're still going strong. Just because rechargeable might not have as much capacity doesn't mean there's any reason why someone can't typically get 20 rolls or more, and I've read elsewhere on the internets of people getting 15-25 rolls from rechargeable -- which are typically rated more like 800mAH not 400 like chantran says.

In short, If I can get over 30 rolls of very intermittent use out of 1500maH, surely a normal user can expect close to 20 out of 800 mAH of healthy battery.

There is absolutely zero reason for me to exaggerate. I mentioned my first set died after two rolls, I complained to Watson, they sent me a replacement and these are good for 20 + rolls. And I also used the power rewind! In real use I rewind manually, because I am not in a rush and like to save the batteries for what is needed.
If anything, Watson has a QC issue, but it is really easy to test the batteries when you get them. Charge them up to 100%, fire a test roll of film through the camera and see how long they last. If only a few rolls, send them back.

 

[Moose22]

There is absolutely zero reason for me to exaggerate. .

Yeah, you're right. I shouldn't have to defend you. It's not like your reputation doesn't speak for itself. Just irks me when people can't tell a real experience shared in good faith from BS.

And I use auto rewind, too. Though I shouldn't, it makes a bad habit. At least once I've popped up the wind lever on a manual camera to open the back having forgotten to rewind. Doh! I also have used a VR lens, and chasing birds with autofocus and VR eats a lot of battery per shot. 30+ rolls (the batteries aren't dead) of lithium when abused like that... 20 rolls of rechrgable isn't controversial at all.

Actually, I bet I've jinxed myself. Better throw a replacement set of batteries in the bag next time I take the camera out.

 

[Huss]

Thank you Moose. Believe me I've criticized enough of the gear I use! Anyone care to read my experience with Shanghai film and Monobath?...