f-stop timers

[Tim Gray]

I'm thinking of getting an f-stop timer. The two I know of are RH Designs, which gets rave reviews, and Darkroom Automations unit, which isn't talked about as much. After reading the manuals, the RH Designs unit seems to have a bit nicer of an interface, with more buttons and a larger display, etc. However, the Darkroom Automations has more memory and a more straight forward method of doing dodges. But maybe that was just the way I read the manuals. They both look like well built units.

Can anyone make some comments on the DA unit or any comparisons? They are both around the same price right now with the current exchange rate...

 

[BWGirl]

Hey Tim! If you do a search on fstop timers, you will find tons of threads here that actually address this very subject! They will give you the information you are looking for!
(I personally own an RH Designs unit & love it)... but check out some of the other threads on the subject!

There should be a tag with a magnifying glass titled "APUG Search" in the bar just below the tabs. Good hunting!

 

[Tim Gray]

I'll search again, but already did a fair amount of it. I found a lot of rave reviews about the RH Designs unit and not much about the DA one. I thought there might be more info about it now... Thanks though!

 

[eclarke]

The most important thing is the f-stop approach. It just works and makes sense. I have the Automation Designs timer and love it,I also have some RH Designs stuff and love it equally...Evan Clarke

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

I have the Automation Designs timer and love it

"Automation Designs" -- Hmpf. The Companies have not merged ... Darkroom Automation ...

For those on a budget, and these days that seems to be everyone, we are still making the original timer at $169.

 

[Ken N]

I bought the RH Design StopClock Professional and ZoneMaster II when it was basically the only game in town. I have nothing but the highest praise for the product and according to others, the Darkroom Automation gear is also very good.

The key is that once you go stop-based, there is no going back. Don't hesitate to buy one--it will transform your darkroom. At a minimum, I'd buy the RH Designs ZoneMaster II and then get whichever timer you want.

I did make one major customization to my timer setup. The Stopclock Professional uses the IEC power plugs for the safe-light and enlarger. The package comes with two to modify your safelight and enlarger. I bought two standard AC power strips and modified the plug on each. This way I can plug multiple enlargers (I have three) and safelights into the powerstrips without having to modify their cords. Also, I have a pegboard behind the enlarger and use two long hooks to hold the timer at an angle several inches above the work surface. This way I have absolutely no vibration issues when I adjust or operate the timer by the buttons. (usually the exposure is made with the foot switch, but not necessary).

 

[Lee L]

I think that one of the things that confuses people about the Darkroom Automation timer is the use of stops as the basic unit of exposure, and the mental dependence on seconds as a time unit among darkroom workers. They are directly related in the Darkroom Automation system (using the standard physics and math of light measurement), and a time in seconds is equal to 2 raised to the timer's exposure in stops. So 4 stops is 2^4, equal to 16 seconds, 3 stops is 8 seconds (2^3), etc. It's pretty easy, and a chart (supplied with both timer and meter) or calculator makes it even easier. The Darkroom Automation timer can also be set to display in seconds if you're more comfortable with that.

I have recently started using a Darkroom Automation meter in conjunction with an RH Designs timer that I purchased before I was familiar with the Darkroom Automation timer, and find that they work very logically and well together.

I'd suggest reading the instructions for both units (freely available online at the respective websites) and deciding if there are important price or feature considerations for your personal needs that make a meaningful difference to you. I've had excellent support from Nicholas on the meter I purchased.

As for the greater amount of discussion and buzz around the RH Designs models, my take is that it's the quality and support combined with greater "visibility" in the market and among APUG members. The RH Design gets more press, more reviews, bigger ads, etc. It's in no way a reflection of any "inferiority" of the Darkroom Automation F-stop Timer that I can see (my experience including a demonstration of the DA F-Stop Timer by Nicholas Lindan at an APUG gathering), although you'll have to decide this for yourself based on somewhat different features.

Disclosure: I'm a very satisfied customer of both RH Designs and Darkroom Automation, with no personal stake in either company.

Lee

 

[Ken N]

The one thing that stands out in my mind about the Darkroom Automation timer is that it is doing a lot more with fewer buttons. This works for some people, but not for others. I think a person with no training can sit down with the DA timer and use it for basic operation a lot quicker than the RH Designs timers as it is a lot less scary looking, but use of the advanced features have similar learning curves.

If I was faced with the daunting task of selecting a timer right now and didn't have the history of usage with one or the other, I'm honestly not sure which I'd get. The StopClock Professional (most expensive model) is pricey, but doesn't bury you with mode-changes as there are dedicated buttons to specific tasks. (example: Focus Button). But the lower cost of the DA timer and what appears to be the ability to store settings for multiple prints is enticing.

I'm just glad that RH DESIGNS hasn't come out with the StopClock Professional II with USB integration with a Windows/Mac computer. If they did, I'd have to buy a new timer.

The point is, BOTH product lines are excellent with several choices in each. No matter which one you get, it will be head-and-shoulders above anything you've ever used before. Not only that, but a timer and analyzer is still less expensive than a DSLR.

 

[resummerfield]

......I did make one major customization to my timer setup. The Stopclock Professional uses the IEC power plugs for the safe-light and enlarger. The package comes with two to modify your safelight and enlarger. I bought two standard AC power strips and modified the plug on each. This way I can plug multiple enlargers (I have three) and safelights into the powerstrips without having to modify their cords. Also, I have a pegboard behind the enlarger and use two long hooks to hold the timer at an angle several inches above the work surface. This way I have absolutely no vibration issues when I adjust or operate the timer by the buttons. (usually the exposure is made with the foot switch, but not necessary).

Great ideas! I agree that "once you go stop-based, there is no going back".

 

[Chazzy]

This is at best a distant memory, but doesn't one system or the other have a timer which can replace the control unit for the Ilford 500 variable contrast head?

 

[RH Designs]

This is at best a distant memory, but doesn't one system or the other have a timer which can replace the control unit for the Ilford 500 variable contrast head?

We offer the StopClock 500 and Analyser 500 which do that, yes. Both are plug-in replacements for the Ilford control box.

 

[RH Designs]

I'm just glad that RH DESIGNS hasn't come out with the StopClock Professional II with USB integration with a Windows/Mac computer. If they did, I'd have to buy a new timer.

A computer has no place in my darkroom!

 

[edtbjon]

A computer has no place in my darkroom!

No, but what about your customers?

//Björn

 

[RH Designs]

No, but what about your customers?

//Björn

Ha! A fair point, but we won't be offering USB connectivity in the near future I don't think. If you go down that road you may as well have the computer do everything including switching the enlarger on and off ...

 

[Ken N]

Well, the timer itself is directly controlling the enlarger, but I would love to be able to build and save my instruction list for those 15+ burns per whacky negative. At minimum, I'd like to "save/restore configurations to an USB thumbdrive. Those configurations then could be recalled at a later date when I need to reprint a negative.

Regardless, the product still rocks.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

In the late 80's early 90's a company called Vivek produced a system for letting a PC control the printing process. The company is out of business, but you can still find their products here and there. The system was aimed at color printing.

Darkroom Automation developed a comparable system for B&W, but as Richard noted, darkrooms and computers don't mix all that well. We might do something derived from it based on an industrial touch-panel terminal, but there is nothing planned at this time.

Selling just the very limited technological idea of stop-based exposure control is hard enough.

Claudio Bonavolta http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/photo/darktools.htm has software and plans if you want to integrate a PC into your darkroom.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Connectivity, if we do it, will be wireless. Nothing is planned, just a few scribbles in a laboratory notebook so far.

Though the Darkroom Automation timer can store multiple 15+ step "wild 'n' wacky" burn sequences, I confess to keeping them written down on 3x5 index cards. I sometimes find when I have 'designed' a print with 15 burns that I can do the same thing with a change in base exposure and contrast along with a dodge or two.

 

[Ken N]

LOL, well, when doing split-grade printing with some weird areas to adjust, it isn't totally out of the question. I think my record is around 18, although there is one print that I could have exceeded that had I not just called it "good enough".

A WiFi solution would definitely get my attention and with a decent software front-end, a nice alternative to the recipe cards. As to screen color from LCD screens, we just need to buy a sheet of that red plastic film to cover the screen. It's the stuff we used to put in the florescent ceiling fixtures in the college darkrooms. Not perfect, but works.

As a process timer, I've been using a program that runs on a PalmPilot or my "voice darkroom timer". (a tape-recording of me reading off the time in five second intervals). Nice not having to watch a clock when stirring 11x14 prints.

 

[Mahler_one]

As suggested above, I just read the manual on the RH Design Timer. Impressive. I have two immediate questions:

1. Unless I read the instructions incorrectly, the display on the RH design timer reads the exposure out in seconds, not in F Stops. I understand that such might be more comfortable to those who are used to seeing their timers give information in seconds. So, as I understand the RH system, the timer must translate the F stop exposures desired into seconds. I am NOT saying the feature is bad or inferior, but just different-AND interesting.

2. The RH Design timer does not ( Of course, once again, I might be missing something ) seem to allow the multiple dodging features that the DA timer allows, and appears to approach the timing of dodging in a different fashion. Once more, I am NOT saying the RH system is bad or inferior, but simply is a different approach. Apologies to Dr. Ross if I am incorrect.

Obviously, both products appear to be excellent, reliable, and backed by honest men offering wonderful support. It is a bonus to have the choice of two such well thought out instruments.


Ed

 

[Tim Gray]

That's what I got out of the two systems as well. As far as the base exposure being in seconds, that seems a little more intuitive to me. I mean they both work, but I think the take home message of f-stop enlarging is that adjustments should be made based on factors of two (or evenly spaced fractions of them) of the base exposure instead of in seconds. Both timers do this. Who cares if the base exposure is f/2 or 10 s?

I ended up ordering an RH designs though for two reasons:
1 - I like more physical buttons.
2 - I might get a Zonemaster II at some point and the fact that the two are integrated is nice.

With the weak pound/'strong' dollar, the price of RH Designs and DA were the same.

 

[eclarke]

"Automation Designs" -- Hmpf. The Companies have not merged ... Darkroom Automation ...

For those on a budget, and these days that seems to be everyone, we are still making the original timer at $169.

Geez, I'm sorry..the old age is setting in and I can't keep such things straight. I listed your timer as my favorite darkroom equipment in another thread...Evan

 

[eli griggs]

Are not these F stop timers digital versions of the analog dial face at darkroommagic.com or are they something else?

 

[Ken N]

As suggested above, I just read the manual on the RH Design Timer. Impressive. I have two immediate questions:

1. Unless I read the instructions incorrectly, the display on the RH design timer reads the exposure out in seconds, not in F Stops...

2. The RH Design timer does not ( Of course, once again, I might be missing something ) seem to allow the multiple dodging features that the DA timer allows, and appears to approach the timing of dodging in a different fashion.
Ed

I'm not sure how the other one does it, but RH Designs does show the time. But in reality, this is no different than a camera which has an aperture and shutter speed adjustment. The shutter speeds on your camera are listed in time not in stops. The "stops" aspect of RH Designs is more related to button presses. If your coarse adjustment is configured to 1/4 stop intervals, every four button presses equals one stop. The timer takes care of reciprocity failure for you by adding an appropriate percentage of time.

The RH Designs timer is an "additive" timer. I have no problem dodging like I've always done it, though.