Exposure without a meter

[PKM-25]

I use a meter for black and white or color neg ( I rarely shoot color ) about 10% of the time. The rest of the time I use my experience, even with infrared films. Chrome would be different, unless it is sunny-16, I will at least use an incident meter...

 

[Xmas]

The light from the sun is not constant. Ever heard of summer, autumn, winter, spring?

yes cosine of theta for heat input but no different for light on subject?

f/16 is only for two hours after sunrise and two before sunset...

 

[Maris]

An important factor in getting good negatives without using a light meter is development by inspection. The guiding principle is giving very generous exposure and pulling the plate out of the developer before it goes too dark. This is easy and routine with blue sensitive and ortho emulsions.

 

[Bill Burk]

clive,

as i said, you have experience your eyes are perfect for the task
but to an inexperienced person they might over expose or under expose grossly ...

john

Especially an inexperienced person trying to judge light using cliveh's eyes... takes a while to get used to them.

 

[Truzi]

... Ever heard of summer, autumn, winter, spring?

I think my Father used to mention a princess by that name.

 

[jp498]

If you use a handheld light meter enough, you can eventually start to play a game with it and guess what it will be before you look at the reading. Like, hmm I bet this shadow will be 1/125 and f5.6.. With practice, you'll be right much of the time. But I still like to check once in a while to be sure.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

It would be too costly to do trial and error with LF. Consult charts, guides etc... there are many available.

all they had to do was finding out the exposure factor between film and papeer and conduct the tests with the much cheaper paper.

 

[Bill Burk]

This thread...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Post 33 from Stephen Benskin...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Gives the ANSI sunny 16 data...

No exposure meter required, simply look up the date and compute a few details... presto... ANSI exposure

 

[MattKing]

I do it regularly - and then verify the conclusion with a meter.

It is a very useful way to work.

 

[Steve Smith]

You can use one of these:

http://www.earlyphotography.co.uk/site/entry_E40-6.html

I posted this in the thread Bill posted a link to - it shows the mathematics behind the exposure disc:

To try out the method without having a disc, I have converted it to a series of adding and subtracting sequences as shown below:

Start with a number depending on ISO used:

ISO 25 +8
ISO 50 +9
ISO 100 +10
ISO 200 +11
ISO 400 +12
ISO 800 +13
ISO 1600 +14


Add a number depending on the light conditions:

Strong sun with white clouds +4
Strong Sun +3
Weak, hazy sun +2
Dull +1
Very dull 0


Add a number depending on the time and date:

May to August, 10 am to 3 pm +4
May to August, 8-10 am, 3-6 pm +3
May to August, 7-8 am, 6-7 pm +2
September, October, March & April, 10 am to 3 pm +3
September, October, March & April, 8-10 am, 3-6 pm +2
September, October, March & April, 7-8 am, 6-7 pm +2
November to February, 10 am to 3 pm +2
November to February, 9 to 10 am +1


And finally, subtract a number depending on the scene:

Open sea and sky and scenes from the air 0
Distant landscapes and beach and snow scenes -1
Open landscapes and scenes with light foreground -2
Groups in the open and near views of houses and trees -3
Distant buildings and wide streets -4
Scenes with heavy foreground and near landscapes -5
Close up portraits in the shade and scenes in heavy shade -6
Bright interiors -7
Dull interiors -14 (disc says rotate twice)

As a test, put in some standard sunny 16 settings:

ISO 100, start with 10
Bright sunny day, use strong sun setting adding 3 = 13
For mid day in June, add 4 = 17
For an open landscape, subtract 2 = 15

The numbers are EV or Exposure value numbers. EV 15 is 1/125 at f16 which is what sunny 16 recommends for these conditions.

Steve.

 

[BrianShaw]

I do it regularly - and then verify the conclusion with a meter.

It is a very useful way to work.

I generally do it just the opposite.

 

[John Koehrer]

I think my Father used to mention a princess by that name.

To be accurate that was Princess Summer, Fall, Winter, Spring. From the Howdy Doody show of so long ago.

Other characters were: Buffalo Bob Smith, Clarabel and Chief Thunderthud.
Besides Howdy there was Phineas T. Bluster and the Flubadub.

No wonder I can't remember anything short term. I'm filled up with this extremely useful information.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Clarabel sprayed people with a seltzer bottle.

 

[benjiboy]

If the human eyes and brain were such good instruments for judging light intensity, why did anyone ever bother inventing a lightmeter ?

 

[jp498]

If the human eyes and brain were such good instruments for judging light intensity, why did anyone ever bother inventing a lightmeter ?

Could be said for 80% or more of the photo equipment that's been invented.

Slide film pretty much requires a meter or luck.

 

[Bill Burk]

If the human eyes and brain were such good instruments for judging light intensity, why did anyone ever bother inventing a lightmeter ?

When you figure "how hard" it seems to be to use a light meter, I keep asking myself the same question...

It is fun reading about the invention... GE's booklet has a diagram as prominent as the spectral response chart... which touts their point-bearing horizontally-oriented needle's superiority to the obviously Weston Master inferior conical-bearing vertically-oriented needle which suffers from much greater friction...

 

[PKM-25]

If the human eyes and brain were such good instruments for judging light intensity, why did anyone ever bother inventing a lightmeter ?

Maybe you missed the posts above that cited experience.

I had 6 U.S. Governors and a gaggle of secret service guys over my shoulder in a scene today, being fairly tired at this point, I decided to meter for a shot with my M3. Well I got the reading and thought, no way that is right, wtf? I set the camera for what I thought it should be and sure as heck, when I checked it later, I had it it set to ISO 100 instead of 400.

Experience pays Mr.....

 

[benjiboy]

Maybe you missed the posts above that cited experience.

I had 6 U.S. Governors and a gaggle of secret service guys over my shoulder in a scene today, being fairly tired at this point, I decided to meter for a shot with my M3. Well I got the reading and thought, no way that is right, wtf? I set the camera for what I thought it should be and sure as heck, when I checked it later, I had it it set to ISO 100 instead of 400.

Experience pays Mr.....

Experience I have, I have been a photographer for more than 60 years and was familiar with sunny 16 in the early 1950's before light meters were generally available and many of the the members of this forum were born, I have no objection to considering your light meter reading in light of your experience, which you have done in the instance that you quote that with respect was your error and not cogent to this discussion , but without a light meter to base your judgment on especially if you're shooting large format reversal film would be a very costly exercise.

 

[Jim Jones]

. . . GE's booklet has a diagram as prominent as the spectral response chart... which touts their point-bearing horizontally-oriented needle's superiority to the obviously Weston Master inferior conical-bearing vertically-oriented needle which suffers from much greater friction...

The main advantage of GE's vertical meter movement axis is the minimum effect of an unbalanced meter movement. Tremors in the hands of us oldsters is usually enough to eliminate the effect of friction. You youngsters can also tap the meter to do this. I've used Weston meters with a somewhat unbalanced movement, but it is a nuisance. Unlike zeroing the meter, correcting an unbalanced movement in either meter is tricky.

 

[PKM-25]

Experience I have, I have been a photographer for more than 60 years and was familiar with sunny 16 in the early 1950's before light meters were generally available and many of the the members of this forum were born, I have no objection to considering your light meter reading in light of your experience, which you have done in the instance that you quote that with respect was your error and not cogent to this discussion , but without a light meter to base your judgment on especially if you're shooting large format reversal film would be a very costly exercise.

I guess it is more than experience then, chalk it up to talent.

 

[BrianShaw]

... the obviously Weston Master inferior conical-bearing vertically-oriented needle which suffers from much greater friction...

Interesting point you make but I'm not too sure about superiority-inferiority. I've used a Weston meter for about 30 years and only recently saw a manual. Ends up that I've been using it incorrectly all these years, yet still get great meter readings and reliability.

 

[benjiboy]

I sold my Luna Pro SBC and Western Euromaster last year and replaced them with a couple of modern digital meters a Kenko KFM 2100 ( Minolta Auto Meter V1) and a Sekonic L358 with the optional 1° spot attachment and I wouldn't want to go back to the old ones.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

When you figure "how hard" it seems to be to use a light meter, I keep asking myself the same question...

It is fun reading about the invention... GE's booklet has a diagram as prominent as the spectral response chart... which touts their point-bearing horizontally-oriented needle's superiority to the obviously Weston Master inferior conical-bearing vertically-oriented needle which suffers from much greater friction...

Another load of rubbish from Generous Electric. Both meter types are equally subject to friction, and both work just fine.

 

[Bill Burk]

It may be rubbish regarding the point friction claim. But... for something that works just fine 10 times longer than tested... that over-engineering's gotta mean something.

 

[Xmas]

I sold my Luna Pro SBC and Western Euromaster last year and replaced them with a couple of modern digital meters a Kenko KFM 2100 ( Minolta Auto Meter V1) and a Sekonic L358 with the optional 1° spot attachment and I wouldn't want to go back to the old ones.

There was a spot meter attachment for the Lunasix?