Exposure without a meter

photoworks68 · Jul 23, 2014

How did the photographers of old get the right exposure (on their large format cameras) for their photos before the advent of light meters? For example right exposure on sunsets.

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baachitraka · Jul 23, 2014

Trail and error...

Chan Tran · Jul 23, 2014

baachitraka said:
Trail and error...

It would be too costly to do trial and error with LF. Consult charts, guides etc... there are many available.

removed account4 · Jul 23, 2014

experience too, there is no replacement for it !

Dr Croubie · Jul 23, 2014

[Rejlander ~1850s] was also the first to use a light meter— sort of, anyway. He would bring his cat into the studio: if the cat’s eye’s were like slits he used a short exposure, if more open a long exposure, and if the cat’s pupils were wide open he knew there wasn’t enough light to photograph!

Man, Roger's blog has some really weird historical anecdotes sometimes...

gone · Jul 23, 2014

Extinction meters. And don't forget, what looks like a perfectly exposed photo could have started out as a really poorly exposed negative. The printing process is where it all happens, irregardless of a negative's short comings or strengths. If it was a plate camera, they nailed the shot, or had enough exposure latitude to correct things.

Jim Jones · Jul 23, 2014

Rijlander's cat may have inspired a photographer a hundred years later who reported that setting the aperture diameter of his lens to the width of his cat's iris at some standard shutter speed was accurate enough. It still worked after the first cat died and acquired another one. Actinometers were popular a hundred years ago. Weston and then GE selenium cell meters were introduced in the 1930s. A few years later the accurate narrow angle SEI meter may have helped Ansel Adams formulate the zone system. Then came the versatile, but often unappreciated, Norwood meter. I was using the data sheets that came with Verichrome film in the 1940s, but splurged on a GE meter for more than a week's pay in 1952. Another site that is fascinating to us old duffers is http://www.jollinger.com/photo/meters/index.html.

Rick A · Jul 23, 2014

If you are talking about photographers of old, then it was trial and error. The pioneers of photography are the ones who spent time and money to be able to write the charts, and had apprentices who learned from the master to be able to continue to define good procedures and practices. Later on, people saw a need for accessories to make it easier for the masses to produce photos (nearly) as good as the pros. Discoveries of newer innovative processes gave us light meters, safety film, and less toxic methods of capturing photons.

Xmas · Jul 23, 2014

http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/w bee.html

jp498 · Jul 23, 2014

B&W film and sunset don't mix. For someone with a brownies, the closest equivalent would be a holga; try it sometime. "sun" "shade" exposure options. It works pretty well most of the time.

Steve Smith · Jul 23, 2014

baachitraka said:
Trail and error...

More likely competence.

(assuming you mean trial!).

Steve.

baachitraka · Jul 23, 2014

[emoji1]

aRolleiBrujo · Jul 23, 2014

I can't, however, I have low confidence!

Vilk · Jul 23, 2014

wow, that bee is awesome!

Chan Tran · Jul 23, 2014

baachitraka said:
[emoji1]

Yes you do! Yoshihisa Maitani wanted the OM-1 to be the Leica III SLR but it isn't.

baachitraka · Jul 23, 2014

OT: I like OM-1n(s) very much and so are the Zuikos.

cliveh · Jul 23, 2014

Your eyes are the best light meter.

removed account4 · Jul 23, 2014

cliveh said:
Your eyes are the best light meter.

but if you don't have experience to know the light
your eyes are useless !

i shoot an awful lot of paper negatives on the fly
with a meter too ... but often times meters are wrong
because they measure some of the light, but not
the blue light which is what paper needs ... i imagine
dry platers wet platers knew different times of day, different "settings"
what to look for, and what to expose for and through their experience ( and others' as well )
they got good at reading the light ... just eyes sees " bright light and shadow" experience and eyes says
"the shadow would be about 20 seconds stopped way down 5 seconds open shadow 1 second bright light .. "

YMMV

Chan Tran · Jul 23, 2014

cliveh said:
Your eyes are the best light meter.

I think you're one of the few that can measure light with your eyes. My eyes and like most people I believe automatically recalibrates for different lighting condition thus I can't trust them for light intensity. Without the meter I have to use my knowledge about the light source like intensity of the sun, typical light fixture output, the effect of cloud on sunlight etc... to determine exposure but not my eyes.

BrianShaw · Jul 23, 2014

jnanian said:
but if you don't have experience to know the light
your eyes are useless !

i shoot an awful lot of paper negatives on the fly
with a meter too ... but often times meters are wrong
because they measure some of the light, but not
the blue light which is what paper needs ... i imagine
dry platers wet platers knew different times of day, different "settings"
what to look for, and what to expose for and through their experience ( and others' as well )
they got good at reading the light ... just eyes sees " bright light and shadow" experience and eyes says
"the shadow would be about 20 seconds stopped way down 5 seconds open shadow 1 second bright light .. "

YMMV

How true about eyes being useless if they don't know what they are looking at!

Regarding meter being wrong: wrong meter for the application will yield results that are wrong. Right meter for the application will yield results that are right. Sometimes selection of the right tool is more important than the tool itself.

cliveh · Jul 23, 2014

Chan Tran said:
I think you're one of the few that can measure light with your eyes. My eyes and like most people I believe automatically recalibrates for different lighting condition thus I can't trust them for light intensity. Without the meter I have to use my knowledge about the light source like intensity of the sun, typical light fixture output, the effect of cloud on sunlight etc... to determine exposure but not my eyes.

Let me put this in context which I failed to do with my previous post. If I am using 35mm with FP4+ which I always develop the same way, I'm quite happy to guess daylight exposure with my eyes. However, for 6 X 6, macro, colour and all other applications I use a meter.

Steve Smith · Jul 23, 2014

Chan Tran said:
I think you're one of the few that can measure light with your eyes. My eyes and like most people I believe automatically recalibrates for different lighting condition thus I can't trust them for light intensity.

But we don't judge the light by the intensity, we judge it by contrast and shadow definition.

The light from the sun is a constant. The only variable is the amount of diffusion by clouds. As the diffusion increases, the contrast decreases as does the definition of shadows.

This is easy to convert to exposure settings.

(obviosly I'm only talking about the normal range of daylight here).

Steve.

cliveh · Jul 23, 2014

Steve Smith said:
But we don't judge the light by the intensity, we judge it by contrast and shadow definition.

The light from the sun is a constant. The only variable is the amount of diffusion by clouds. As the diffusion increases, the contrast decreases as does the definition of shadows.

This is easy to convert to exposure settings.

(obviosly I'm only talking about the normal range of daylight here).

Steve.

The light from the sun is not constant. Ever heard of summer, autumn, winter, spring?

removed account4 · Jul 23, 2014

clive,

as i said, you have experience your eyes are perfect for the task
but to an inexperienced person they might over expose or under expose grossly ...

john

BrianShaw · Jul 23, 2014

cliveh said:
The light from the sun is not constant. Ever heard of summer, autumn, winter, spring?

Indeed... or morning, noon and night -- three very different light levels.

Exposure without a meter

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