Exposure (compensation) Tips

[Sirius Glass]

Let me clarify my post. GREEN grass has about the same light reading as a gray card. There, are you happy.

 

[JNP]

the back of your hand is abut Zone VI.

Do you mean PALM not back ?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Reading from the back of my hand requires about one half extra stop of exposure. A meter reading of my cousin's wife needs two extra stops exposure. She is a milk skinned blond.

What does your cousin's wife's husband say when you use his wife's hand to take a meter reading?

 

[radiant]

What does your cousin's wife's husband say when you use his wife's hand to take a meter reading?

"I only work in imperial!"

 

[Rick A]

What does your cousin's wife's husband say when you use his wife's hand to take a meter reading?

We learned of the exposure compensation when I was teaching him how to use a 4x5 with a hand held meter, she was his willing subject. Test shots were immediately processed and proofed for results.

 

[silvercloud2323]

Didn’t we have this same discussion recently? Have you taken any pictures yet to experience the effects of these metering schemes? Especially answer the following: why do you feel the need to COMPENSATE from a “normal” metering. You may be complicating metering too much.

hi Brian,
All the cameras give a 18% grey exposure to the area or object you shoot. If you compose for a dark area you don't want it to turn grey 18%. So that's why i underexpose 2 stops. I learned this from A. Adams..

 

[Chan Tran]

hi Brian,
All the cameras give a 18% grey exposure to the area or object you shoot. If you compose for a dark area you don't want it to turn grey 18%. So that's why i underexpose 2 stops. I learned this from A. Adams..

If you shoot negative then you expose for the best details and if the subject is overall a dark tone you may not need to underexpose. You simply make the print darker during the printing phase. The result is actually better.

 

[BrianShaw]

hi Brian,
All the cameras give a 18% grey exposure to the area or object you shoot. If you compose for a dark area you don't want it to turn grey 18%. So that's why i underexpose 2 stops. I learned this from A. Adams..

Hello to you!

Yes, on the average across the entire scene… unless the meter is weighted. Ansel and his technique is best applied to meter reading with a spot meter, rather than a TTL in-camera meter.

At the risk of being rude, may I ask if you have exposed film with your A1? I think you’ll find that camera will produce fine negs 9 times out of 10 with “normal” metering.

Remember a couple of things: There have been millions of photographers who aren’t Ansel and have been successful; Pro grade cameras were made for pros who needed success without too much fiddling. Don’t complicate your photography if it’s not absolutely necessary.

 

[MattKing]

So that's why i underexpose 2 stops.

For clarity, just a comment about the use of certain terms.
"under-expose by two stops" means to give the film too little exposure - two stops too little. It essentially refers to making a mistake.
"reduce the exposure by two stops" means to give the film two stops less exposure then indicated by the meter, in order to give the film the correct exposure (based on a shadow reading).
I expect that we are dealing here with some translation issues. Don't worry, your English is way better than my French, and certainly better than any other language that I might struggle with.

 

[silvercloud2323]

Hello to you!

Yes, on the average across the entire scene… unless the meter is weighted. Ansel and his technique is best applied to meter reading with a spot meter, rather than a TTL in-camera meter.

At the risk of being rude, may I ask if you have exposed film with your A1? I think you’ll find that camera will produce fine negs 9 times out of 10 with “normal” metering.

Remember a couple of things: There have been millions of photographers who aren’t Ansel and have been successful; Pro grade cameras were made for pros who needed success without too much fiddling. Don’t complicate your photography if it’s not absolutely necessary.

Hi Brian ,
I have exposed film with the A1 with succes. But sometimes with no succes.
Not trying to complicate things. I go to India soon and don't want to ruin the trip and photos because of lack of knowledge.

 

[silvercloud2323]

If you shoot negative then you expose for the best details and if the subject is overall a dark tone you may not need to underexpose. You simply make the print darker during the printing phase. The result is actually better.

 

[silvercloud2323]

Thanks Chan,
i'm still figuring out who to correctly expose. Therefore one more question.
For metering the light on camera, is there a difference between an area with 1/ overall dark tones or 2/ a mixed image with dark and light areas ???

 

[BrianShaw]

Hi Brian ,
I have exposed film with the A1 with succes. But sometimes with no succes.
Not trying to complicate things. I go to India soon and don't want to ruin the trip and photos because of lack of knowledge.

That will be a fantastic trip!

So, what film were you using, how were you determining exposure, and what kind of images failed to meet your expectations? We’re you evaluating negatives (or transparencies) or prints?

Knowing more about your successes and challenges will make it easier to give good guidance.

To answer your questions to @chan,,, the mix of light and dark should average to be appropriately a normal exposure. The all dark environment (or all light) is where you’d want to compensate. Those are where the meters “average of 18% gray/grey” will yield less than optimal results. But that would be black cat in a deep shadow, or white cat in snow situations.

 

[silvercloud2323]

That will be a fantastic trip!

So, what film were you using, how were you determining exposure, and what kind of images failed to meet your expectations? We’re you evaluating negatives (or transparencies) or prints?

Knowing more about your successes and challenges will make it easier to give good guidance.

To answer your questions to @chan,,, the mix of light and dark should average to be appropriately a normal exposure. The all dark environment (or all light) is where you’d want to compensate. Those are where the meters “average of 18% gray/grey” will yield less than optimal results. But that would be black cat in a deep shadow, or white cat in snow situations.

I use often 400 ISO. The problem is I have no good memory , nor did i write things down about Aperture and Shutter speeds the times i made a picture.

Also a problem is , I often get a 'general' metering about an image ,by using my in camera metering system.
Even if i change position of the camera, the reading remains often the same.

 

[MattKing]

It isn't necessarily important to remember the specific speeds and lens settings.
It is important to remember what you set on the meter, where you pointed the camera to take the reading, and what the tones of the scene were like in real life.
As you build up a "database" of things like "when subjects are this dark, I need to take a reading and then decrease the exposure by this number of stops" you will start to be more comfortable with this.
The A-1 is quite good though on its own.

 

[BrianShaw]

I use often 400 ISO. The problem is I have no good memory , nor did i write things down about Aperture and Shutter speeds the times i made a picture.

Also a problem is , I often get a 'general' metering about an image ,by using my in camera metering system.
Even if i change position of the camera, the reading remains often the same.

That’s not necessarily a problem unless you are pointing at something dark then something light and swing no metering difference. That might indicate that your meter is malfunctioning.

But if your camera functions properly, as I previously said in another of your threads… you probably will have 98% success by just using “A” mode. Some will scoff at my “amateur methods” but it really works. Pro cameras and their metering were designed to help pros succeed more often than not.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

hi Brian,
All the cameras give a 18% grey exposure to the area or object you shoot. If you compose for a dark area you don't want it to turn grey 18%. So that's why i underexpose 2 stops. I learned this from A. Adams..

Only if you are reading a particular shadow that you want dark but detailed. Re-read Ansel Adams, you're missing the finer points of metering and placing the shadow details. This technique works best with a hand-held spot meter. If you are using an in-camera averaging meter, like on your A1, see my post above. It's not rocket science, but misunderstanding gets in the way...

Doremus

 

[Paul Howell]

Don't know if you have time to find a copy, read it, and follow the process before you leave for India, I recommend The Zone System for 35mm Photographers by Carson Graves. In a nut shell he explains how to find your personal E.I for your film, developer and camera combo. Unlike the true ZS or BTZS he exposes for the highlight and lets the shadows fall where they may. Some may find the shadows too dark, it seems a fair trade off with roll film where all the frames are going to be developerd to a standard time for a given developer.

 

[silvercloud2323]

Don't know if you have time to find a copy, read it, and follow the process before you leave for India, I recommend The Zone System for 35mm Photographers by Carson Graves. In a nut shell he explains how to find your personal E.I for your film, developer and camera combo. Unlike the true ZS or BTZS he exposes for the highlight and lets the shadows fall where they may. Some may find the shadows too dark, it seems a fair trade off with roll film where all the frames are going to be developerd to a standard time for a given developer.

Thank you so much Paul. As a matter a fact i have that book in pdf. Will read it too..

 

[Sirius Glass]

Don't know if you have time to find a copy, read it, and follow the process before you leave for India, I recommend The Zone System for 35mm Photographers by Carson Graves. In a nut shell he explains how to find your personal E.I for your film, developer and camera combo. Unlike the true ZS or BTZS he exposes for the highlight and lets the shadows fall where they may. Some may find the shadows too dark, it seems a fair trade off with roll film where all the frames are going to be developerd to a standard time for a given developer.

A better place to start is:

1. Use box speed, there is no reason to change that if you follow through.
2. Meter without the sky. [You are most of the way there at this point.]
   
3. If those photographs are good, start metering the shadows with details that you would like to include, set those in Zone 2, Zone 3, or Zone 4, and the accordingly set to Zone 5. In plain English depending on the darkness of the shadow detail open then lens 1, 2 or 3 stops or adjust the timing accordingly.
4. Do the first three until you consistently capture the photographs you want and save yourself the money on the books because now you know the basics without them and endless exhausting and expensive testing.

 

[Paul Howell]

As you have not read The Zone System for 35mm Photographers do you even know how much testing is required? I don't see how you can criticize what you have not read? As a matter of fact Graves procedure only require a roll, he uses a ring around, he does not advocate use of a densitometer and endless testing. The reason not to start with box ISO is that OP uses an older camera, his in camera meter and shutter may or may not be accurate. What Graves bring to the 35mm photographer is the concept of visualization, how to see the scene in black and white and adjusting the exposure to match his/her vision.

It is true that my newer cameras with matrix metering I usually wind up shooting at box speed, at least with Tmax, with Foma, Bergger, Ultrafine, and Kentmere I do shoot off box speed.

 

[Sirius Glass]

As you have not read The Zone System for 35mm Photographers do you even know how much testing is required? I don't see how you can criticize what you have not read? As a matter of fact Graves procedure only require a roll, he uses a ring around, he does not advocate use of a densitometer and endless testing. The reason not to start with box ISO is that OP uses an older camera, his in camera meter and shutter may or may not be accurate. What Graves bring to the 35mm photographer is the concept of visualization, how to see the scene in black and white and adjusting the exposure to match his/her vision.

It is true that my newer cameras with matrix metering I usually wind up shooting at box speed, at least with Tmax, with Foma, Bergger, Ultrafine, and Kentmere I do shoot off box speed.

Who said that I did not read it? Can you prove that? I am saving the poster from wasting his time and money with a more direct route.

 

[Paul Howell]

Really, then you should have said in your post that you had read it and countered Graves points point by point. In the mean time what about giving OP options and letting him decided what is useful and what not useful.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have had the best results teaching someone exposure by starting simple and building a step at a time. Jumping into testing is a good way to scare people to search for new approaches.

 

[Arthurwg]

Backlit subject +1.