Explain slide film to newbie

Roger Cole said:

You'll need a screen or at least a nice white (or as close as possible to white) wall. The lighter, whiter, and more even the better. Dedicated screens can be brighter but otherwise aren't that much better, just far more convenient. I have an old one the surface of which seems to be coming apart form age or something so thinking about replacing mine soon myself.

A hint for showing your slides to friends and family - slide shows got a bad reputation because people would put together shows of dozens to hundreds of their slides from some vacation and show them while droning on and putting everyone to sleep. "And here we are with an elephant...and here's uncle Henry drinking a beer at the pub...and...zzzzzzzz" Chose some of your very best slides, and it helps if there's a place you can easily darken that you can leave the projector set up so people can just quickly and easily view them, and show no more than, say, 20 really impressive images at a time. A dozen is better. Leave them wanting to come back later to see more, not bored by every possible slide so that the good ones are diluted.

Click to expand...

The key is the first edit needs to be brutal. Any slides that are too dark, too light, out of focus, wrong colour balance, bad composition, toss them. Even if they don't seem that bad, toss them. On the second edit, get rid of the duplicates, 20 images of a blonde girl in a bikini are logical duplicates of each other, your slide show only needs one of them. You don't toss those, you put them to the side. You will eventually get down to 30 or 40 slides, now comes the hard part, arrange the slides to tell the story, it should not need narration. If some of the slides, don't help the story, leave them out.

In other words Roger is right, a good slide show is short, tells it's story and then ends before it gets boring.

wogster said:

The key is the first edit needs to be brutal. Any slides that are too dark, too light, out of focus, wrong colour balance, bad composition, toss them. Even if they don't seem that bad, toss them. On the second edit, get rid of the duplicates, 20 images of a blonde girl in a bikini are logical duplicates of each other, your slide show only needs one of them. You don't toss those, you put them to the side. You will eventually get down to 30 or 40 slides, now comes the hard part, arrange the slides to tell the story, it should not need narration. If some of the slides, don't help the story, leave them out.

In other words Roger is right, a good slide show is short, tells it's story and then ends before it gets boring.

Click to expand...

Again, I doubt I'll be showing slides to anyone. I've been shooting digital for many years and have less than twenty pictures I'd ever show. I'd bet money that I'll never have a slide to "show". I am very picky with my photos.

Might be useful for other folks new to slide film though...

If I do find that magical picture with a slide, I'm hoping I can get it printed. For me, a photo is not a photo until its on paper. The pictures I do show are all printed 13x19 and carried in a special box.

You can get it printed, and it can look pretty darned good, but it will never look as good as it does projected in a dark room.

Roger Cole said:

You can get it printed, and it can look pretty darned good, but it will never look as good as it does projected in a dark room.

Click to expand...

+1

A darkroom print is but one step in the holistic process. A beautiful print up on the wall, illuminated by spots, will capture the hearts and minds of the viewers more readily than projection. Projection today is an art form: introduction, the show, guest speaker, background music, transition effects, audience discussion, more of the show. Just sitting in a lounge looking at an image that does not sing, that does not touch or interact with the viewer, will not work... You're putting them 'out there' to show what you do well: so the pics must inspirethe viewer, but if you don't have a single good image over all that time photographing, I don't consider a projector to be a worthwhile investment for occasional use as opposed to investing in quality printing and framing.

Nah, go ahead and get the thing. They don't cost much, and you can view your slides as they were meant to be seen. If you don't want to ever show them to another soul, you'll still like the projector.

Be aware that Velvia may take some practice though. All slide film is pretty narrow in dynamic range and Velvia especially so. It can look awesome, but really only when everything is just right.

Just shoot, shoot and shoot.

I have Velvia and i just give it a shoot, if i get it fine decent i am happy, if not, it is just a mistake and i learn from it to do it again better or without same mistake, just enjoy it and don't worry about the results.

Roger Cole said:

Nah, go ahead and get the thing. They don't cost much, and you can view your slides as they were meant to be seen. If you don't want to ever show them to another soul, you'll still like the projector.

Be aware that Velvia may take some practice though. All slide film is pretty narrow in dynamic range and Velvia especially so. It can look awesome, but really only when everything is just right.

Click to expand...

OK, I have stumbled onto something very special here !!!! My projector arrived today and as luck would have it, two of the cylinders were loaded with slides. The photographer that left the photos was very good. (London and Rome)

I am blown away. WOW. Please dont laugh at me, but imagine how I feel ignoring my local stores recommendation against shooting film. (They told me I was crazy). Viewing pictures with a projector takes this hobby to a much higher place.

I changed my mind fast. I WILL be showing my pictures with this projector. Just as I do with 13x19 prints, I'll keep the volume of shots low---like good food. Small portions leave you wanting more.

Now if only my local developer can finish with my first roll--- I cant wait to see them. Thanks all, for helping a newbie.

yohimbe2 said:

OK, I have stumbled onto something very special here !!!! My projector arrived today and as luck would have it, two of the cylinders were loaded with slides. The photographer that left the photos was very good. (London and Rome)

I am blown away. WOW. Please dont laugh at me, but imagine how I feel ignoring my local stores recommendation against shooting film. (They told me I was crazy). Viewing pictures with a projector takes this hobby to a much higher place.

I changed my mind fast. I WILL be showing my pictures with this projector. Just as I do with 13x19 prints, I'll keep the volume of shots low---like good food. Small portions leave you wanting more.

Now if only my local developer can finish with my first roll--- I cant wait to see them. Thanks all, for helping a newbie.

Click to expand...

Heh. Another one sucked in!

Now imagine how good medium-format slides look

Slippery slope. Pretty soon you'll be shooting 8x10s at ten bucks or more a pop and viewing them on a light table...

polyglot said:

Heh. Another one sucked in!

Click to expand...

Yep. Just like I sucked my 12-year-old son in. All it took was digging out the projector and projecting some old slides.

To the OP:

Glad you have had the chance to experience slides the way they were supposed to have been seen.

Or should I say, photography (one of the ways) it is supposed to be seen.

And to the others here on APUG:

Doesn't this highlight both the joy and the frustration of using the internet to share/experience photography - one look at a few projected slides does more than a million words or images on a screen. :confused:

yohimbe2 said:

OK, I have stumbled onto something very special here !!!! My projector arrived today and as luck would have it, two of the cylinders were loaded with slides. The photographer that left the photos was very good. (London and Rome)

I am blown away. WOW. Please dont laugh at me, but imagine how I feel ignoring my local stores recommendation against shooting film. (They told me I was crazy). Viewing pictures with a projector takes this hobby to a much higher place.

I changed my mind fast. I WILL be showing my pictures with this projector. Just as I do with 13x19 prints, I'll keep the volume of shots low---like good food. Small portions leave you wanting more.

Now if only my local developer can finish with my first roll--- I cant wait to see them. Thanks all, for helping a newbie.

Click to expand...

Roger Cole said:

Slippery slope. Pretty soon you'll be shooting 8x10s at ten bucks or more a pop and viewing them on a light table...

Click to expand...

8x10's? Light table?

No spikes on my shoes here-----If the slope is slippery, I fall right in.

yohimbe2 said:

8x10's? Light table?

No spikes on my shoes here-----If the slope is slippery, I fall right in.

Click to expand...

Oh yes. Viewing a slide on a light table/light box is a completely different experience from projection. I've looked at some of my 35mm slides through a 50mm camera lens backwards (through the front of the lens) and they fairly jumped through the lens at me. I suspect the experience would have an even bigger wow factor if I used a proper loupe. I can only imagine 8x10 on the light table. Wow.

I've seen 8x10s on a light table. Their gorgeous, but not enough to personal entice me to make the move to 8x10 AND spend that kind of money on film. I do have a Jobo so I could process it myself but still...no, if I ever go 8x10 it will be for black and white which is still somewhat affordable, not with transparencies. Velvia 50 is currently (just checked) $214.50 for 20 sheets at B&H, $10.73 a pop. Other films are cheaper (and the remaining stock of E100G is MORE, $14.95 a sheet!) but the least expensive is still over eight bucks.

I do like my 4x5 though and that's fairly affordable as color sheet film goes. Since the demise of Ilfochrome I had held off shooting the E100SW I had bought here and stashed in the freezer but before my last trip to TN I loaded up a Grafmatic with it and shot three sheets while I was up there. I'll probably finish that up on my next trip.

yohimbe2 said:

8x10's? Light table?

Click to expand...

He's talking about 8x10" large-format film. Think of an 8x10" print, except that that is the size of the film you shoot in the camera. Has about half a gigapixel of resolution per ($10 plus processing) frame, with the same glorious contrast and saturation of slide film. It's not easy to project in high quality though, which means most people put it on a backlit-glass table and look at it with a magnifying loupe.

4x5" gives most of the benefits of 8x10", but it's still only about $2-$3/frame and a lot less unwieldy.

Yep. I started to explain but was thinking of posting links to pictures of cameras, price of film, how film holders work... Thanks for the summation.

Don't do the mistake, stay with what you have, and slowly move to MF or even 4x5 only, you will waste a lot of money if you move to 8x10, i don't shoot 35mm but i do MF and 2 years ago started with 4x5" LF and did 2 slides sheets only[also 3 B&W], Velvia 100F, even it is not that great but viewing that against light table or even a projector or whatever light source white enough giving me another feeling, i have a 30" Apple monitor[Cinema] and i use it as a table light projector.

English doesn't seem to be your first language so it may not have been apparent that I did not at all mean to encourage anyone new to film to jump into 8x10! It was a joke really, but alluding to the fact there is what's commonly called a "slippery slope" where you really get into something and get more and more engrossed and involved, and if you really love film and the look of transparencies, that could eventually lead to something like that.

I actually wouldn't encourage anyone to move to large format, much less 8x10, unless they already know why they want to and they do or want to do their own darkroom work (or have a lab that will develop sheets and plan to work in hybrid mode - quite viable but not APUG material.) For someone who didn't know what slides were at the start of the thread, I'd definitely suggest staying with 35mm a while. If the OP really loves 35mm film a move to medium format might well make sense later. LF is a whole different thing. I love my 4x5 and love using it, but if I could only shoot one format it would be something in medium.

Roger Cole said:

English doesn't seem to be your first language so it may not have been apparent that I did not at all mean to encourage anyone new to film to jump into 8x10! It was a joke really, but alluding to the fact there is what's commonly called a "slippery slope" where you really get into something and get more and more engrossed and involved, and if you really love film and the look of transparencies, that could eventually lead to something like that.

I actually wouldn't encourage anyone to move to large format, much less 8x10, unless they already know why they want to and they do or want to do their own darkroom work (or have a lab that will develop sheets and plan to work in hybrid mode - quite viable but not APUG material.) For someone who didn't know what slides were at the start of the thread, I'd definitely suggest staying with 35mm a while. If the OP really loves 35mm film a move to medium format might well make sense later. LF is a whole different thing. I love my 4x5 and love using it, but if I could only shoot one format it would be something in medium.

Click to expand...

Don't worry, i know that was a joke, and English is not my first language, but also i post a warning if that "slippery" is strong to lead to larger formats, i am sure even if getting into 8x10" later will think about 11x14" or even larger, it is like endless addiction.

Well, i shoot slides with MF and i love it a lot, it is tricky to do the exposure spot on, but when it is properly done then it is no slouch. I love velvia over Provia/Astia and even Kodak slides, but sure each has its own look and use. And even i don't use film for anything rather than just hobby or fun, but i can see why MF is something over 35mm, and that 5 sheets i've done so far with 4x5" told me that this format will blow MF out of water, no need to talk for higher level/class as 8x10" or larger, but 4x5" is almost high enought for those like us who shoot MF mostly, and i don't shoot film 35mm, only digital, and i started to buy film because i blown away with the quality of digital Hasselblad i have, so i started film directly with MF and never look back.

yohimbe2 said:

OK, I have stumbled onto something very special here !!!! My projector arrived today and as luck would have it, two of the cylinders were loaded with slides. The photographer that left the photos was very good. (London and Rome)

I am blown away. WOW. Please dont laugh at me, but imagine how I feel ignoring my local stores recommendation against shooting film. (They told me I was crazy). Viewing pictures with a projector takes this hobby to a much higher place.

I changed my mind fast. I WILL be showing my pictures with this projector. Just as I do with 13x19 prints, I'll keep the volume of shots low---like good food. Small portions leave you wanting more.

Now if only my local developer can finish with my first roll--- I cant wait to see them. Thanks all, for helping a newbie.

Click to expand...

Two mule deer, Big Bear Zoo, 1975

Reading your post reminded me of the amazement I used to feel when I projected my first Kodachromes. I'd entertain myself for hours focusing in and out on the sharp bits of the few good slides I took. It was so much fun seeing furry ears and sharp individual hairs. I daydreamed about getting this close in real life. But because I know film can do this, I enjoy the work of photographers like Art Wolfe and Jim Brandenburg who have taken the time to get close-up portraits of animals in the wild...

Next steps....

Get a rubber stamp pad and take the eraser of a pencil. Do this on the travel slides for practice...

From the back of the projector, lift a slide and mark a dot in the "top right back" corner of the slide. Do this for all the slides... Do it for every slide you get back from the lab... This will make your life easier for all time because you will never put a slide in the tray backwards or upside down again!

---

Music... Pick a few tracks that fit your slides. For my nature shots I often use Firefall "Clouds across the sun" - stuff like that. Figure about 5-10 seconds a slide (up to 20 seconds for a really impressive slide) and sketch out the timeline on paper corresponding the slide numbers and parts of the music.

Practice the "show" at least two or three times before showing your friends. Pretty soon you will find that certain times you hit the music with impressive timing.

You don't need a synchronizer but these devices exist and are cool. Some of them take a track so unless you have multitrack equipment, what I do is run two tapes... One portable walkman attached to the synchronizer and the real tape runs into the stereo. Sometimes the two decks will get out of sync and I'll pause or ff the portable until they are close again.

Bill Burk said:

Next steps....

Get a rubber stamp pad and take the eraser of a pencil. Do this on the travel slides for practice...

From the back of the projector, lift a slide and mark a dot in the "top right back" corner of the slide. Do this for all the slides... Do it for every slide you get back from the lab... This will make your life easier for all time because you will never put a slide in the tray backwards or upside down again!

---

Music... Pick a few tracks that fit your slides. For my nature shots I often use Firefall "Clouds across the sun" - stuff like that. Figure about 5-10 seconds a slide (up to 20 seconds for a really impressive slide) and sketch out the timeline on paper corresponding the slide numbers and parts of the music.

Practice the "show" at least two or three times before showing your friends. Pretty soon you will find that certain times you hit the music with impressive timing.

You don't need a synchronizer but these devices exist and are cool. Some of them take a track so unless you have multitrack equipment, what I do is run two tapes... One portable walkman attached to the synchronizer and the real tape runs into the stereo. Sometimes the two decks will get out of sync and I'll pause or ff the portable until they are close again.

Click to expand...

WOW------ A mind reader. You knew my pain before I even got there. Yep, my first roll of Velvia 50 is now projected on my walls in a glorious movie size image. In most cases, upside down or flipped ! (what a hassle) Thanks for all the tips. Appreciate it.

I made the mistake of shooting too late in the day and my pictures are a bit golden (something I like in other situations). I'll have to try direct sunlight with a filter to see what this velvia can do. I'm still blown away. (people think I'm crazy) Yeah, I'm crazy for resisting the latest digital flavor of the month (D800) and buying a lame F5. Lovin every minute.

I do have a few questions.

1. How big can a projector project before losing image quality?

2. How much should I spend on a screen?

3. When I get a keeper, how do I get it on paper----???? I like prints more than anything.

4. How do I project portrait vs landscape? Portrait uses more than my wall can hold.

5. Is there a way to project on a ceiling? My first showing may consist of matts and pillows to look up (as if viewing stars) . My ceilings are my best blank canvases in the house.

6. These projectors arent that expensive. Lets say I want to upgrade. How much $$$

7. And lastly, when the bulbs go out can they be replaced?


Yep I lost my mind. But some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must live ! (Bukowski)

Here is a few answers:

1. The projector you have is designed to project in environments that range between small rooms and gymnasium size halls. At the extremes, you might need to change lenses in order to maximize quality and conveniently fill the screen. You also may need to consider alternate projection bulbs in order to get really bright images in very large halls. There are also special purpose projectors that throw out enough light to project really, really large, but they are really hard on slides, so generally those who used them would make a point of having duplicate slides made for projecting purposes. I don't know that slide duping is being done any more.

2. Thankfully, there are still good screens being made, because of digital projection. But I would look first at your local Craigslist, because there are good used screens out there. The real trick is to obtain one that is undamaged and not discoloured. I would try to find one that is at least 50" x 50" in size, but you might find a 40" x 40" one more easily. Screens of that size often come with a folding tripod stand - if you don't struggle with those stands when you try to use them, then you are actually super-human .

3. The best prints from slides are done on Ilfochrome (formerly Cibachrome). The materials for that process are very expensive and have recently been discontinued. The Ilfochrome process is better suited to some images than others. The second best option used to be having a high quality interneg prepared, and then printing from that interneg. That process is still possible, even though the special purpose internegative films are no longer being made, but it will be hard to find someone to do that for you. The third option is now the most common - have the slide scanned, and then have a digital print done from the digital file that results. Good quality, high resolution scans aren't cheap, and really aren't an APUG subject anyways .

4. In the old days :confused:, screens were square, so portrait orientation wasn't always so poorly treated. Make sure any screen you get is square.

5. I wouldn't project vertically because the projectors weren't designed that way - heat might not dissipate properly. You might be able to design something using mirrors or prisms that would solve the problem, but I doubt it would be worth it.

Hope this helps.

yohimbe2 said:

1. How big can a projector project before losing image quality?

2. How much should I spend on a screen?

3. When I get a keeper, how do I get it on paper----???? I like prints more than anything.

4. How do I project portrait vs landscape? Portrait uses more than my wall can hold.

5. Is there a way to project on a ceiling? My first showing may consist of matts and pillows to look up (as if viewing stars) . My ceilings are my best blank canvases in the house.

6. These projectors arent that expensive. Lets say I want to upgrade. How much $$$

7. And lastly, when the bulbs go out can they be replaced?

Click to expand...

1. Very big if you maintain the proportion between size and viewing distance, just like with prints. If you double the diagonal, and double the viewing distance, the perceived quality should be the same. In the case of slide projectors you have the added complication of light fall. For large distances a 250W lamp is better. I suggest you don't go for too big images. Projecting on a proper screen (rather than on the wall) makes a difference.

2. Not very much. A screen is a simple object. Don't go for the cheapest. The biggest choice you have to make is between the white/flat ones (better for those in front of the screen) or the "pearled" ones (which sacrifice a bit of quality in front of the screen to gain a bit of quality for viewers which see the images at an angle). If your living room is long enough (double room) and your audience is not a small crowd (let's say everybody sees the screen with no more than a 25° - 30° angle) the normal ones are the best choice.

3. a) A process like Ilfochrome. Very hard to find nowadays (actually I think it's out of production). Requires masking for optimal rendition - otherwise it's easy to have an excess of contrast. Very expensive and complicated. Final quality can be stunning as far as people say. This is what I gather from APUG. Never seen myself. There were other processes alternative to Ilfochrome but I don't know if they are still in production.
b) A duplication with a negative which you can print optically;
c) Hybrid workflow: scanning and then printing either optically (laser on photographic paper) or with ink-jet technology;
d) Maybe there is a fourth option which I ignore...

4) Buy a square screen (don't buy the rectangular ones which are used for home theatre) which will accommodate landscape and portrait equally well.

5) I don't think the projector would work well in a position for which it was not designed. You would probably have your slides all over the place, your slide projector will jam, the heat of the lamp will dissipate where you don't expect, and your floor is probably harder than you think...

6) If you are satisfied with the general quality of your projector, the obvious upgrade path would be to only upgrade the lens to find a really better one. Other than that, you might think about a medium format projector. That will escalate the quality game to another level. I suppose with medium format mounting slides between glasses becomes much more important.

7) Yes and they are fairly inexpensive. There are several mounts available so you should check the lamps you buy match your projector. You are actually supposed to always have at least a spare lamp in case your lamp dies during a projection (and in fact it normally dies during a projection, lamps die while they work).