Expired Tmax Liquid Developer?

[DH_Studio]

Hey guys,

Does anyone have any firsthand personal experience (versus speculation, wild guessing or telling me to run some rests myself) with Liquid Tmax Developer - still sealed - past its expiration date?

Continuing with my nonstop comedy of errors - the plot being me trying to hand process b+w film - after receiving a brown batch of D76 (mail order), returning it, ordering another from another distributor, it also arriving brown (part of a bad batch of D76 from January of 2020 that Kodak shipped worldwide and then after realizing the error unfortunately left it in the supply chain for the customer to be inconvenienced with returning and replacing rather than recalling it all), as well as a leaky tanks and bent reels - I went to the only photo supply store in my area and bought a bottle of Tmax (curbside pickup as we're in the middle of a horrible Covid-19 surge here) and got it home only to find that it expired in August of 2020. Each of the 4 defective items that had to be replaced included about a week lag between discovering the problem and receiving the replacement so I'm going a little nutty here. I just want to process my @#$%& film!

Clearly I need to be meticulous and fanatical about QCing every element of this process moving forward, since sellers and distributors are not. Hard lesson learned!

The solution looks the tiniest bit yellowed but it's almost unnoticeable. I searched for people talking about personal experiences with this specific issue but most of the replies were about other developers, powders, expired papers, etc. or wild stabs at guessing how much development time the OP should add. I couldn't find much beyond conjecture, so if anyone has used Tmax past expiry I would love to hear how it went.

It's sealed, probably stored in the light on a shelf inside the shop, and expired 4 months ago.

Thank you!

 

[NB23]

Sealed? How long expired? Within a year, I’d use it without worrying.

If opened, no.

 

[DH_Studio]

Sealed? How long expired? Within a year, I’d use it without worrying.

If opened, no.

It's sealed, probably stored in the light on a shelf inside the shop, and expired 4 months ago.

Have you personally used Tmax that was sealed but past its expiration date?

 

[mnemosyne]

Tmax developer has excellent keeping properties in my experience. I just recently developed a roll of TMZ with the last 100 cc that were in the bottle that had been open for about two years and was past its best by date for about a year or so. The developer concentrate was stored in the original (not very confidence inspiring plastic) bottle but I used lighter gas to drive the air out whenever I had opened that bottle. Before using the last drops I also did a "clip test" with the film leader just to be sure and this is what I would generally recommend in case of the slightest doubt or the developer past its prime. Put a piece of film in the developer (working dilution) and agitate in full light and it should develop to dark grey in about a minute or two, then you are good to go.

I would not worry about the bottle being stored on a shelf exposed to light. Most developers do not have to be kept in dark. If the developer was sensitive to light, Kodak would ship in a opaque plastic bottle, me thinks.

 

[NB23]

It's sealed, probably stored in the light on a shelf inside the shop, and expired 4 months ago.

Have you personally used Tmax that was sealed but past its expiration date?

Yes. Was good.

 

[Jon Buffington]

I have the same question but much older bottle. I have an unopened, sealed, NOS bottle from a now closed 130year old camera store. Bottle came off the shelf maybe 5 years ago, still in the sealed cardboard box. No expiration date but there is a manufactured date of 2003. Still good? Or get rid of it?

 

[DH_Studio]

Tmax developer has excellent keeping properties in my experience. I just recently developed a roll of TMZ with the last 100 cc that were in the bottle that had been open for about two years and was past its best by date for about a year or so. The developer concentrate was stored in the original (not very confidence inspiring plastic) bottle but I used lighter gas to drive the air out whenever I had opened that bottle. Before using the last drops I also did a "clip test" with the film leader just to be sure and this is what I would generally recommend in case of the slightest doubt or the developer past its prime. Put a piece of film in the developer (working dilution) and agitate in full light and it should develop to dark grey in about a minute or two, then you are good to go.

I would not worry about the bottle being stored on a shelf exposed to light. Most developers do not have to be kept in dark. If the developer was sensitive to light, Kodak would ship in a opaque plastic bottle, me thinks.

Okay, awesome, thank you! I went ahead with it, negs are drying now and they look pretty good, from what I can see. Thanks for sharing that!

 

[DH_Studio]

Yes. Was good.

Thank you!

 

[MattKing]

You need some context!
The dates you see on these bottles and packages aren't expiry dates, they are dates that the manufacturer is prepared to guarantee.
Many of them are related to the properties of the containers as much as the contents.
And those dates incorporate all sorts of worse case scenarios.
And you are buying stuff in the midst of a once in a lifetime, supply change disrupting worldwide pandemic.
You need to visit our local park, which appears to have achieved world wide attention:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude_Chilling_Park
Speaking more generally, there are a bunch of us here who have and use stuff that is a lot longer past the "use before" dates than that T-Max developer.
I have to ask one question - do you always throw out milk that is even one day past its "best before" date?

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I have some experience with old bottles of T-Max developer, albeit significantly older stock: Uneven marks / deposit on film - hand processed - Paterson tanks.

 

[DeletedAcct1]

T-Max dev, being a dev with a high percentage of diol, is less prone to oxidation. I've once had a bottle 1 year past the expiration date, unopened, that worked flawlessly.

 

[removed account4]

Hey guys,

Does anyone have any firsthand personal experience (versus speculation, wild guessing or telling me to run some rests myself) with Liquid Tmax Developer - still sealed - past its expiration date?

Continuing with my nonstop comedy of errors - the plot being me trying to hand process b+w film - after receiving a brown batch of D76 (mail order), returning it, ordering another from another distributor, it also arriving brown (part of a bad batch of D76 from January of 2020 that Kodak shipped worldwide and then after realizing the error unfortunately left it in the supply chain for the customer to be inconvenienced with returning and replacing rather than recalling it all), as well as a leaky tanks and bent reels - I went to the only photo supply store in my area and bought a bottle of Tmax (curbside pickup as we're in the middle of a horrible Covid-19 surge here) and got it home only to find that it expired in August of 2020. Each of the 4 defective items that had to be replaced included about a week lag between discovering the problem and receiving the replacement so I'm going a little nutty here. I just want to process my @#$%& film!

Clearly I need to be meticulous and fanatical about QCing every element of this process moving forward, since sellers and distributors are not. Hard lesson learned!

The solution looks the tiniest bit yellowed but it's almost unnoticeable. I searched for people talking about personal experiences with this specific issue but most of the replies were about other developers, powders, expired papers, etc. or wild stabs at guessing how much development time the OP should add. I couldn't find much beyond conjecture, so if anyone has used Tmax past expiry I would love to hear how it went.

It's sealed, probably stored in the light on a shelf inside the shop, and expired 4 months ago.

Thank you!

I don't have any experience that is recent. you should mix the developer and shoot a test roll ( or sheets if it is TMAX RS ) and report back. no one's experience will help you seeing it wasn't stored in the same place isn't the same lot/batch, isn 't the same expiration date &c, they don't have the same water to mix it, or processing style.
me? I wouldn't touch the stuff. last time I used that developer my film was nearly ruined by dichroic fog, EK told me to get rid of my 150 sheets of film processed in it, and I had to contact the owner of a local photo chemistry company ( sprint ) to learn how to salvage my film ( and that was in 1991 ).
good luck !

 

[ic-racer]

I use opened bottles of Tmax developer past the expiration date with no issue.

 

[DH_Studio]

I use opened bottles of Tmax developer past the expiration date with no issue.

Thank you! Going to scan today, but processed yesterday and they looked fine.

 

[DH_Studio]

You need some context!
The dates you see on these bottles and packages aren't expiry dates, they are dates that the manufacturer is prepared to guarantee.
Many of them are related to the properties of the containers as much as the contents.
And those dates incorporate all sorts of worse case scenarios.
And you are buying stuff in the midst of a once in a lifetime, supply change disrupting worldwide pandemic.
You need to visit our local park, which appears to have achieved world wide attention:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude_Chilling_Park
Speaking more generally, there are a bunch of us here who have and use stuff that is a lot longer past the "use before" dates than that T-Max developer.
I have to ask one question - do you always throw out milk that is even one day past its "best before" date?

No, I drink milk until the carton bloats and fist-sized chunks are clogging the pour spout.

 

[DH_Studio]

I have some experience with old bottles of T-Max developer, albeit significantly older stock: Uneven marks / deposit on film - hand processed - Paterson tanks.

Thanks Tom. Luckily, didn't have that issue. Waiting for some D76 to ship from Kodak to replace the two bad brown batches I bought and using this for the next week or so, which looks like it'll be fine. Probably won't use Tmax again but it'll be in the back of the cabinet just in case.

 

[MattKing]

Thanks Tom. Luckily, didn't have that issue. Waiting for some D76 to ship from Kodak to replace the two bad brown batches I bought and using this for the next week or so, which looks like it'll be fine. Probably won't use Tmax again but it'll be in the back of the cabinet just in case.

It is a really good developer - particularly if you need to maximize film speed.
It definitely won't keep as well once it is opened - particularly if it is already at or near its "use before" date, so you may want to use it up instead.

 

[pentaxuser]

but I used lighter gas to drive the air out whenever I had opened that bottle. /QUOTE]
Shouldn't that be heavier gas?

pentaxuser

 

[mnemosyne]

[QUOTE="pentaxuser:]Shouldn't that be heavier gas? [/QUOTE]

Yeah ... a cunning old darkroom fox from Down Under has taught me this trick many moons ago ... If you have to use lighter gas in a pinch, just make sure you store the bottle upside down ...