Expired slide film and color shift

[CasioCassette]

Hello from a first-time poster on this forum!

I've recently purchased several rolls of expired slide film, a mix of Fuji Astia 100 (exp in 2006), Fuji Sensia 100 (exp in 2004) and Kodak Elite Chrome 100 (exp in 2007). None of them were cold-stored.

I've only shot one roll of Astia 100 and the slides came out with a heavy magenta cast. The roll was shot with my Nikon F100 at EI 100. I certainly expected some degree of color shift due to the way these were stored and their age, and I was fully aware that the results from these films would be unpredictable.

The attachments are just quick shots taken of the slides on a lightbox, to show what the magenta cast looks like. Some photos exhibit the cast more than others.

For the remaining rolls of Astia what would you suggest in order to reach a more neutral-looking color palette? And would that approach be applicable to Sensia and Elite Chrome, too? Or do those exhibit different color shifts?

I have never used one but read about CC gelatin filters, could that be a solution? Will green alone be able to balance out the magenta? If so, what strength, CC10G or CC20G or much stronger?

I intend to buy a slide projector in the near future, this is why I would like to make all the effort to get it right at the taking stage.

Thank you for any advice.

 

[koraks]

I have never used one but read about CC gelatin filters, could that be a solution? Will green alone be able to balance out the magenta? If so, what strength, CC10G or CC20G or much stronger?

Yes, gels can help for sure. They may/will add some flare though, but that won't be an issue in all lighting setups. Just give it a try.
By the looks of it you've got both a magenta and a blue cast, so you'll need a green and a yellow filter. How strong - I don't know. You'll have to experiment.

I intend to buy a slide projector in the near future, this is why I would like to make all the effort to get it right at the taking stage.

Ah...I'd strongly suggest just buying fresh film. This is always going to be a compromised situation, after all.

 

[CasioCassette]

Thanks! I'll look into green and yellow gels. I'm sure this will be quite an experimentation to get the proper filtration figured out at the end. But if these get me in the ballpark of more balanced colors, I'll be content.

Last year I shot 2 rolls of much more fresh, but still expired, Sensia 100 and there was so little color shift in them (a little bit towards yellow) that it only gave the pictures somewhat of a vintage vibe which I really liked.

Normally I shoot fresh film, this is really more of an experiment to see what results can be achieved.

 

[Steve@f8]

Well I for one think the shots look rather cool. Many Lomo fans would agree.

 

[Rudeofus]

There are two methods to modify the color balance: you can add KBr to pull down all shadows, and you can add (much smaller) amounts of KI to lower shadow only in the top most layers of your slides. If you have larger stash of these films, it may well be worth experimenting.

 

[CasioCassette]

Well I for one think the shots look rather cool. Many Lomo fans would agree.

Thank you!

There are two methods to modify the color balance: you can add KBr to pull down all shadows, and you can add (much smaller) amounts of KI to lower shadow only in the top most layers of your slides. If you have larger stash of these films, it may well be worth experimenting.

Very interesting, thanks! I have my local lab do all film devopment at this point, but I'll keep this in mind if I ever start home developing.

 

[Anon Ymous]

There are two methods to modify the color balance: you can add KBr to pull down all shadows, and you can add (much smaller) amounts of KI to lower shadow only in the top most layers of your slides. If you have larger stash of these films, it may well be worth experimenting.

IIRC, colour balance is also affected by CD pH and raising it shifts it to green. Iodide content affects the yellow - blue balance, because it primarily affects the top layer.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Crazy idea (?) - has anyone tested the possibility of using colored filters to adjust the color at the time of projection? Obviously some care would need to be taken due to the heat produced by the lamp, but...? Am I right to think that if a filter can be found to produce good results when put on the lens when shooting -- then that same filter might be approximately correct for projecting slides taken without the filter?

My guess is that each emulsion (Astia, Sensia, Elite Chrome) is probably going to need a different color filter, but that is just a guess.

 

[koraks]

Obviously some care would need to be taken due to the heat produced by the lamp

Place the filter in front of the lens; there's no heat issue there.
The main problem I foresee is that the whites will be tinted by the filter. Might be a bit odd looking depending on the scene. But in principle the approach should work!

 

[Rudeofus]

The main problem I foresee is that the whites will be tinted by the filter. Might be a bit odd looking depending on the scene. But in principle the approach should work!

That's the thing: many "problems with color cast" eventually turn out to be "problem with color crossover", and there's no filter for that.

Also: a filter can only darken. If you need a strong filter during projection, your slides will not look very bright.

 

[dabsond]

I think your expectations of actually being able to use 17 year old expired film that has not been frozen/cold stored are extremely high.

 

[jeffreyg]

As suggested I would use fresh film. If you want to play with the outdated film you might want to try some of the suggestions mentioned. I'll offer another one. Scan the color shifted ones and open in PhotoShop (if you have it) and while keeping them in RGB change to black and white then go to filters > neural, select colorize and see what comes up. If close, check ok to send it back to PS where you can tweak as needed then print or do as you please with them.

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[CasioCassette]

Thank you all for your input.

I suppose I might have been a little too optimistic about getting realistic-looking results from such an old film. The magenta cast could work on some landscape scenes, though, will have to experiment there.

It was the previous two rolls of Sensia 100 that I shot in 2022 (from a totally different batch and year, and I'm guessing also cold-stored) which had yielded very usable slides that gave me the idea to play around with other expired slide film.

Normally I use fresh or frozen film. Perhaps I'll run into frozen Sensia/Astia someday! They appeal most to me because of their color palette and their generally low-contrast look. It's too bad I discovered them after they had been discontinued...

 

[blee1996]

I always liked Astia 100 for its more subtle color palette and bought some expired (but well stored) rolls recently with good results.

10 years ago, I would probably buy slightly expired slide film all day and get decent results 90% of time. Nowadays, most of those slide film are really expired and I got like 50-60% success rate. For example, Kodak EPP 100, I have film from totally blank, to mostly faded pastel, to heavy magenta color shift. So for important trips, I just don't bother with expired slide film unless I have tested that particular batch.

For affordable fresh 35mm color slide film, I'm using Euphoric 100 by Atlanta Film Co. It is basically re-spooled Ektachrome 100D cinema stock. I like the color palette and can always count on its freshness.

 

[AnselMortensen]

If you can get a large amount of one film, all of the same emulsion batch, all stored the same way, then that would probably allow you to test & experiment with exposure & in-camera filtration...but otherwise, you're chasing your tail.

BTW, Ektachrome 100 Plus (EPP) does NOT age well. AVOID.

 

[CasioCassette]

For affordable fresh 35mm color slide film, I'm using Euphoric 100 by Atlanta Film Co. It is basically re-spooled Ektachrome 100D cinema stock. I like the color palette and can always count on its freshness.

Interesting, I hadn't heard of this film until now. I've looked at images online and they seem to have punchy colors and a ton of contrast. How do you like Euphoric 100 compared to, say, Provia or E100?

BTW, Ektachrome 100 Plus (EPP) does NOT age well. AVOID.

Thanks, I'll be sure to avoid EPP.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Maybe you best bet is to scan the film and adjust out the color cast and balance the white light sliders. Then display them digitally with a digital projector or on a 4K smart TV or computer monitor.

 

[blee1996]

Interesting, I hadn't heard of this film until now. I've looked at images online and they seem to have punchy colors and a ton of contrast. How do you like Euphoric 100 compared to, say, Provia or E100?

Euphoric 100 looks like normal Ektachrome 100, a bit more punch than Astia but otherwise pretty neutral. Maybe the extreme photos you saw were cross-processed, which was the rage in TV Euphoria. I have a few samples below with not much post processing:

Euphoric - Ektachrome 100D

A resurrected color slide film for cinema, and in particular, HBO's second season of TV show "Euphoric". There are vendors who re-spool the long cine rolls into 135 cassettes, so we can use it in still film cameras. It is pure E6 processing, without needing any remjet removal.

flickr.com

 

[MattKing]

Being re-spooled cine Ektachrome 100D, the sprocket holes are probably slightly different, and there won't be any frame numbers.
The difference in sprocket holes doesn't matter with most still film cameras.

 

[blee1996]

An unrelated side note: exposed Ektachrome does not age that well either. I recently got hold of some equipment from 1950's, and you can tell the color has faded on the Ektachrome but the Kodachrome are totally fine.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

All the more reason to scan your films with the highest resolution and skill early on.

 

[MultiFormat Shooter]

An unrelated side note: exposed Ektachrome does not age that well either. I recently got hold of some equipment from 1950's, and you can tell the color has faded on the Ektachrome but the Kodachrome are totally fine.

Ektachrome has improved stability, now, compared to previous generations. Kodak says it will last at least 80 years, without fading.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Ektachrome has improved stability, now, compared to previous generations. Kodak says it will last at least 80 years, without fading.

No one around now will have to prove it.

 

[jeffreyg]

blee1996, as an example from my post above, I took a screen shot of your sailboat photo and used the PhotoShop neural filter to show how you can restore an image that may be important to you. It took less than five minutes and I did no other editing. After posting I will remove it from my computer. This was strictly to show a technique example.

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[runswithsizzers]

@CasioCassette
If you are going to experiment with trying to counterbalance the color shifts, you might consider including a Neutral Gray card in your test shots for a known point of reference.