Expired Benzotriazole

[pdeeh]

Did it help your heartburn?

It was a brand containing not only industrial methylated alcohol, but Castor oil, Methyl salicylate and Diethyl phthalate.
The taste was so disgusting that I didn't really notice the heartburn after that ...

 

[darkroommike]

The Everclear brand of grain alcohol ("distilled from 100% selected grains") sold in the United States is available in liquor stores has a tax stamp on the bottle and is sold as a beverage, although I have heard that in some states you need a prescription and that is only sold for sanitizing some piece of use at home medical equipment. That said it is 95% grain alcohol, 190 proof and can cause burns if drunk straight (college kids try this on a dare every once in a while, but never more than once, the results range from uncomfortable to very bad). Other types of the same percentage (or higher) are sold in wholesale electronic parts houses for cleaning circuit boards and are made by the azetope method or the last little bit of water is extracted chemically with a drying agent like calcium chloride and probably should not be consumed. I bought a pint years ago and find that it makes a pretty good residue free lens cleaner but that commercial preparations like ROR work just as well. It isn't very good as a degreaser, naphtha works better. Probably would work fine as a preservative in a 1% solution of Benzotriazole. It's also good in popular college fraternity drinks like Purple Passion and Torpedo Juice.

 

[fdonadio]

how much benzene is contained in this azeotrope?

Ron,

I've found that on Wikipedia and one other website.

To make it "easier" to obtain 96% ethanol, benzene is added to the ethanol + water azeotrope before distilling. So, I imagine, ethanol obtained in that way will contain traces of benzene, which is a known carcinogen.

Still, I can't find any information on the trace amounts of benzene in commercially available ethanol.

It's pretty obvious what benzene does to our health, but not so obvious (for me) what it does to photographic emulsions...

Cheers,
Flavio

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Anhydrous alcohol is most likely made today by using a molecular sieve in a continuous process. The water is extracted and the water free alcohol is bottled. When the sieve becomes "full" it is merely heated to drive off any water and the process continues. Anhydrous ethanol is hydroscopic absorbing water from the air to reach 95% very quickly. So it must be kept well stoppered. When I was in graduate school we used it in polishing sodum chloride or cesium iodide optics used in the IR spectrometer.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

It was a brand containing not only industrial methylated alcohol, but Castor oil, Methyl salicylate and Diethyl phthalate.
The taste was so disgusting that I didn't really notice the heartburn after that ...

Methyl salicylate is very toxic 1 ml ingested has proven to be fatal.

 

[pdeeh]

eek.
it's at 0.5% v/v according to the label.
mind you, I have had a pain in all the diodes down my left side
ever since ...

 

[Michael Guzzi]

Going on a bit of a tangent here, what can be used to create the stock solution, other than water? I've seen mentions of methanol and other alcohols. Would these bring any advantage over the water solution? Longer life once mixed?

 

[Photo Engineer]

I once heard of a guy brushing his teeth with hemorrhoid medication.

IDK about use of the 3 part azeotrope. It is sold here as "absolute alcohol" and is 200 proof or 100% ethanol, actually with about 0.3% of benszene. It should not affect emulsions but will affect your liver and might affect viscosity due to the non-polar benzene content.

PE

 

[Photo Engineer]

eek.
it's at 0.5% v/v according to the label.
mind you, I have had a pain in all the diodes down my left side
ever since ...

That's good, your liver is on your right. Your rectumfier is on the bottom and works with your diodes.

PE

 

[Wayne]

I once heard of a guy brushing his teeth with hemorrhoid medication.


PE

That's what I thought it was at first. I was actually relieved it was "only" fungicide. The prep H is now stored elsewhere because fortunately I never need it.

 

[fdonadio]

IDK about use of the 3 part azeotrope. It is sold here as "absolute alcohol" and is 200 proof or 100% ethanol, actually with about 0.3% of benszene. It should not affect emulsions but will affect your liver and might affect viscosity due to the non-polar benzene content.

Thanks, Ron. I'll stick to Hendricks gin and Stolichnaya for drinking (in moderate doses) and 95% grain alcohol for lab use.

Liver will keep degrading slowly and gracefully...


Cheers,
Flavio

 

[Photo Engineer]

Same here!

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Going on a bit of a tangent here, what can be used to create the stock solution, other than water? I've seen mentions of methanol and other alcohols. Would these bring any advantage over the water solution? Longer life once mixed?

NO they would only be more expensive to make.

BZT is usually used as a 1% solution. At this concentration it is easily soluble in water. A few people have posted that they have trouble with this concentration but no one seems to have been able to determine what they are doing wrong. I suspect they are miscalculating the amount.

 

[Arklatexian]

Everclear is almost pure Ethanol. However, if you think that is good, read up on the ternary azeotrope of Ethanol, Benzene and Water. This is how they make Ethanol at 95% or higher in some places. Make sure your "everclear" is NOT made by that method and is indeed certified as fit for human consumption - or in our case, photographic use of course.

PE

While Everclear here is used mostly to "spike" punch, the only legal way to buy it is with the alcohol tax label on it and I would be surprised if bottles at the liquor store shelf are much over 50 or 55% alcohol. Agreed it is somewhat stronger that 100+ proof "Old Pop Skull" bourbon but not as dangerous as 95% ethanol. Unless, of course, you drink a toddy before trying to load film onto a reel in total darkness at which time suicide is a possibility. To me, this makes film loading on developing reels in the dark one of the most dangerous pursuits of mankind.....Regards!

 

[darkroommike]

While Everclear here is used mostly to "spike" punch, the only legal way to buy it is with the alcohol tax label on it and I would be surprised if bottles at the liquor store shelf are much over 50 or 55% alcohol. Agreed it is somewhat stronger that 100+ proof "Old Pop Skull" bourbon but not as dangerous as 95% ethanol. .....Regards!

Sigh, I hate to repeat myself. My bottle of Everclear was purchased here in Iowa with the tax stamp and is labeled 95% Alc. By Vol. (190 proof). Distilled from 100% Selected Grains. One minute on Google would have confirmed this as well.

 

[Wayne]

Sigh, I hate to repeat myself. My bottle of Everclear was purchased here in Iowa with the tax stamp and is labeled 95% Alc. By Vol. (190 proof). Distilled from 100% Selected Grains. One minute on Google would have confirmed this as well.
View attachment 160508

yep. You can buy the same thing at liquor stores in Wisconsin. It's 95% ethanol.

But you can't get it in Minnnesota, and perhaps Louisiana or other states.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

There was a period in Florida when it could not be purchased. A state legislator had heard that boy's used it to seduce girls. No siree, not in the virtuous state of Florida.

When I was in graduate school you could get a gallon of the 95% from the stock room for $1.05 and not even have to pay that. We had had a friend run a sample through the gas chromatograph to check its purity.

 

[Photo Engineer]

We used to mix it with orange juice for chem lab parties. One wag suggested that we add "horse liver dehydrogenase" to give it extra kick.

It was powerful stuff. But then I'm talking the 200 proof variety. At that time, on one knew it had benzene in it.

It used to vanish from the stockroom shelf quite regularly until one Prof. added some yellow phenolphthalien to it (go look it up!) and 2 students vanished from chem class. They reappeared about a week later appearing 20 pounds lighter. The Prof. gave a lecture on the effects of certain chemicals on the human body.



PE

 

[fdonadio]

All hail Flavio, the owner of a 25kg bag of benzotriazole!

Hahaha! I am the king of the world!


Cheers,
Flavio

P.S.: The bag is plastic on the inside and has no holes. It's perfectly sealed, though it's not good looking.

 

[Photo Engineer]

There is Benzotriazole and 5-Methyl Benzotriazole. Both act similarly, but the latter is a bit less soluble.

PE

 

[fdonadio]

There is Benzotriazole and 5-Methyl Benzotriazole. Both act similarly, but the latter is a bit less soluble.

Ron,


The label says the CAS # is 95-14-7. Sigma-Aldrich says that's Benzotriazole, 1,2,3-Benzotriazole or 1H-Benzotriazole.

So, I believe I got the right stuff. Can you confirm?


Cheers,
Flavio

 

[Gerald C Koch]

If you distill dilute ethanol what comes over is a mixture of alcohol and 5% water. To obtain 100% alcohol a small amount of benzene is added to the 95% alcohol causing an azeotrope of water alcohol and benzene to distill over. This effectively removes the remaining 5% of water. However ethanol produced in this manner is not considered fit for human consumption and it is unlawful to sell it for that purpose. However it is perfectly safe to drink Everclear.

http://www.solvent--recycling.com/azeotrope_1.html

There are two other methods for increasing the alcohol content of spirits. Colonists in New England would leave their hard cider outside on a freezing night. The water would freeze and the next morning the stronger cider would be poured off. You can also use a process called salting out. Salt is added to the water alcohol mixture. The alcohol will separate out and float over the remaining brine.

A bit off topic but those that make brandy know that the alcohol content increases with age. Water is preferentially lost from wooden barrels. Of course some alcohol is lost too. The lost alcohol is reffered to as "the angel's share."

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ice Wine!

Yes Flavio, they are so close to being identical that there is no real problem.

PE

 

[fdonadio]

Ice Wine!

Yes Flavio, they are so close to being identical that there is no real problem.

PE

Thanks, Ron! It's always reassuring to have your word.

 

[RSalles]

All hail Flavio, the owner of a 25kg bag of benzotriazole!

Hahaha! I am the king of the world!


Cheers,
Flavio

P.S.: The bag is plastic on the inside and has no holes. It's perfectly sealed, though it's not good looking.

Well done! When can we start to talk about "small quantities sent to Rio Grande do Sul"?
I wanna check if you really want to share your find,

Thanks your Majesty,




Cheers,

Renato