expensive 620 film not needed

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BradS

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I wish it were true. I've tried it in all three of the Hawkeye Brownies that have passed through my hands and in all of them, the 120 supply spool gets jammed very quickly. The slot in the end of the spool is big enough that the pin in the camera that is supposed to stay in the center of the spool, eventually "falls" out into the slot and then...well, it gets real hard to advance the film. As always though, YMMV :smile:
 
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richardmellor

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I think I may not have explained it well enough .the brownie hawkeye in the picture comes with a steel 620 spool. If you buy one make sure it has the original 620 spool. you use that spool in the take up position. It is a smaller diameter than a 120 spool.
I have 4 brownie hawkeyes like the one pictured. and have run 30 rolls of 120 film through them ,with out a hitch. I develop the film and save the steel take up roll .
 

Dave Parker

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When I was shooting my old Kodak medalist II, we used to just respool the 120 onto the 620 spools and go from there, the respooling process is very easy, and I could do a roll in about 30-40 seconds and had not problems at all, I used to do this because I liked shooting velvia with that old camera because of the lens quality on it, it was one of the best cameras I ever owned.

If you need to know how to do it, just give me a hollar.

Dave
 

Jeremy

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Richard is right, you can use 120 rolls of film in these cameras, but you HAVE to have a 620 take-up spool.
 

Gerald Koch

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J&C Pro 100 film comes on spools that have very thin flanges. These spools fit more easily in the supply position of the Hawkeye than other 120 spools. You still need a legit 620 spool for the takeup.
 
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richardmellor

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the films I have tested in the brownie hawkeye pictured above that have worked perfectly.



agfa apx 100. [25 rolls tested]
ilford hp5.[5 rolls tested]


I have on order from freestyle. arista.edu.ultra.[fomapan 100] which I am most interested in for this camera. for two reasons . one it sells for 1.29 a roll. and two it is reported to help with a old world look . I see no reason why this roll film should work any differently than the first two I tried
 

geraldatwork

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Dammit I did it again. I got so interested in these cameras from this discussion that I just bid for one on "the bay by the mouse". They seem to be going for $5. I am hoping it has the correct spool. What got me was this camera was the first camera I ever had. I think it was a hand me down from one of my older brothers. It took some pretty nice photos. Yes, with photography you can go back home again.
 

BradS

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Hmmm, well, I guesss it just wasn't meant to be for me then. The 120 spools always jam in my Brownie Hawkeyes.

What brand of film are you using? The Kodak spools don't work for me. Maybe other manufacturers' spools have slightly smaller slots?
 
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richardmellor

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I have not tried kodak film yet.the agfa and ilford film worked fine.
the numbers on the film even showed up perfectly in the red window.
 

geraldatwork

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This guy has an interesting take on why the spools may fit in some cameras and not in others. He says Kodak discovered other companies spools were working and they made the holes smaller so they would have to buy Kodak film. Whether this is true or not I have no idea.
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Donald Qualls

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There are two different versions of the Brownie Hawkeye. The older version, with metal winding knob and "long" on the bulb exposure toggle, will take unaltered 120 supply rolls (I'm told by those who have both versions). It also has a glass lens, making it the more desirable version. The newer version, with plastic winding knob and "L" on the bulb toggle, will take a *trimmed* 120 spool -- spool length is apparently not a problem, but the flange diameter must be reduced to that of a 620, which is easily done with a nail clipper or curved nail scissors, by cutting even with the surface of the paper on the roll.

Kodak did practice lock-in from the day they brought out 620 film. Their avowed purpose was to allow the design of slimmer, lighter cameras with the same negative sizes as corresponding 120 models, but in fact, it was mostly to force people to buy 620 film (silly of them, they should already have known from previous 116/616 experience that other companies would copy the 620 format in a matter of months if the cameras sold well). Many cameras from the heyday of 620 (Medalist, Kodak Reflex II, Tourist II, Vigilant 620) were tight enough as sold that they won't accept even modern plastic 120 spools with a flange trim, though some can be converted to take a 120 supply without much trouble.

In fact, though, the tightest 620 I own is a Savoy 620 -- it's tight enough to cause drag and film stretching even with original 620 spools. Don't recall exactly who made it, but it's a short step cheaper even than a Brownie Hawkeye; curved film plane, front glass meniscus lens, and no bulb setting. The back won't even slide on with a 120 in the supply -- the 0.1 inch difference in length is enough to bollix it up. Same is true of my Ansco Pioneer 620, but I can see in that camera where a little careful work with a Dremel will open things enough to use 120 at least on the supply side.
 
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richardmellor

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thanks for all the great info on these camera's. I guess I got lucky and they all were the right model . I guess the most important thing to look for in buying one of these is to make sure it has the steel 620 roll .then at least you would be able to roll 120 film on the 620 roll . I bought all of them for around $5 each . each one came with the steel 620 roll . even if you had to buy 2 or 3 to get the right one . you would have three steel rolls which you would need to shoot 3 rolls of film a outing . I dropped the camera and cracked the bakalite on one .it was great to have parts.
 

Nige

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Donald Qualls said:
... a *trimmed* 120 spool -- spool length is apparently not a problem, but the flange diameter must be reduced to that of a 620, which is easily done with a nail clipper or curved nail scissors, by cutting even with the surface of the paper on the roll.


I use trimmed 120 rolls in a Brownie 620 Junior. I use a file to remove the edge off the spool and I find once around the flange section is enough for it to fit nicely. Takes about 1min to do. I use a 620 spool for the take up side.
 
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richardmellor

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this is link to a respooling your 120 film on a 620 roll.

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derevaun

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richardmellor said:
I have not tried kodak film yet.the agfa and ilford film worked fine.
the numbers on the film even showed up perfectly in the red window.

A red window on a 620-only camera?
 

matt miller

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Satinsnow said:
When I was shooting my old Kodak medalist II, we used to just respool the 120 onto the 620 spools and go from there, the respooling process is very easy, and I could do a roll in about 30-40 seconds and had not problems at all, I used to do this because I liked shooting velvia with that old camera because of the lens quality on it, it was one of the best cameras I ever owned.


I, too, used to own a Medalist and regret daily my decision to sell it. Sometimes I do stupid things like that.

Respooling 120 onto 620 is the way I did it too. It's a simple procedure & works great. 620 spools can be found pretty easily.
 

kiku

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derevaun said:
A red window on a 620-only camera?

I have a Kodak "BROWNIE FLASH 20" camera using 620 only film and it has a red window.
Cordially, Kiku
 

Donald Qualls

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derevaun said:
A red window on a 620-only camera?

Nearly all 620 cameras had red windows, just as nearly all 120 cameras have had. The film itself is the same, as is the backing paper. Only the spool differs -- and the method of lining up the frames is also the same, except that there were many fewer 620 camera models made that could detect the start of the film and start an automatic counter without use of a red window, at least to set up frame 1. I'm not even sure the Medalist II could do this; I know for certain the Kodak Reflex II requires setting Frame 1 in the red window, even though you wouldn't need to look at the window again until you load the next roll.
 

Dave Parker

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The Medalist II could count from the start of the roll, the secret was you had to remember to set the counter at the beginning before loading the film..and if you tried to use the counter without properly setting the counter correctly before loading, the camera could jam, which I learned the hard way, when I first had my MII...

Dave
 

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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Donald Qualls said:
There are two different versions of the Brownie Hawkeye. The older version, with metal winding knob and "long" on the bulb exposure toggle, will take unaltered 120 supply rolls (I'm told by those who have both versions). It also has a glass lens, making it the more desirable version. The newer version, with plastic winding knob and "L" on the bulb toggle, will take a *trimmed* 120 spool -- spool length is apparently not a problem, but the flange diameter must be reduced to that of a 620, which is easily done with a nail clipper or curved nail scissors, by cutting even with the surface of the paper on the roll. (snip)

Word, I must have gotten an exceptional hybrid today: I bought a Hawkeye (Flash model) in great condition with "Long" on the bulb toggle, but with a plastic winding knob. I put some J&C 400 in it on its original 120 spool, and the takeup is the true 620 one. It took some pushing to get the 120 spool in, but once it fell in place it didn't budge. The winding was stiff at the beginning, but after 3 frames it's pretty smooth.

I gotta say it is the coolest box camera I've seen so far. Something in the simplicity of it all and the clean lines of its design just fills me with joy.
 

Donald Qualls

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Wait'll you see the images, mhv. Partly it's the big negative, but the image quality available from these simple little cameras is quite amazing...
 

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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Donald Qualls said:
Wait'll you see the images, mhv. Partly it's the big negative, but the image quality available from these simple little cameras is quite amazing...


The store from which I got it had a stack of old photographs. There were just people, houses, dude on a bench, but the particular thing with them is that they appeared to have all been contacts. I recognized the 6x6 size of them, and then recalled my parents' old photo albums which were filled with a myriad of these small-format pictures. Once I get time to develop the rolls, I'll try to make a mask so I can contact-print my negs with a white border, just like it used to be.

The other fascinating thing was the different formats. I think I spotted some 116 film, there was also some panoramic shots, postcard-sized, etc. I do pine for all the weird sizes of rollfilm that were available before the great sweep of the 80's.

I have an old 6x9 bakelite folder and used it with Efke 25 once. When enlarged and cropped to remove the fuzzy border, the picture looked like it was taken with any modern camera. In my Brownie I put some J&C 400 (it's rather dark these days) and did some exterior shots.

--Michel HV
 
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What is the image size of pictures made on 620? I suppose it could vary, as 120 does; specifically, does anyone know what size an Argus Super 75 TLR produces?
 

Dave Parker

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thetimedissolver said:
What is the image size of pictures made on 620? I suppose it could vary, as 120 does; specifically, does anyone know what size an Argus Super 75 TLR produces?

The Argus produces a 6cm x 6cm negative as do almost all of the TLR cameras that have been made over the many years.

Dave
 
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