Ever wonder why? (Japanese vs Germans)

[Pioneer]

As if Minolta was bad.
Yawn.

You sure sound like a camera information God. Besides being a camera fanboy, is talent following?

Talent? Talent?? Talent???

I thought this was a discussion about the size of the tool, where did talent come from?

 

[Prest_400]

Medium format wise, I've always wondered how Leica never got to Manufacture a 6x6 120 RF. I get the sense that in the 50s it was about folding cameras, and perhaps the popular movement towards 35mm deemed it a non explored area. Curiously it took until the 80s-90s? To have such kind of camera as the Mamiya 6/7, etc.

A fixed/interchangeable MF RF, akin to an M camera, just grown for 120 might have found a nice niche itself.

I found it curious how the "Leica-Contax style RF" didn't appear until the 60s or so in Medium Format (but late for 6x6). while I was researching for a Fuji GW. We get a Fuji Texas Leica, but no leica itself.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Why did the physically smaller Japanese come up w/such big, heavy Pro equipment (Nikon, Mamiya), while the bigger Germans came up w/smaller, lighter equipment (Leica, Rollei)?? (And there's no racism in my question)

I've been thinking about this question. I can't address the 120 film TLR part but it seems to me that the Germans were out of the 35 mm gear for professionals by the mid-'70s and that Japanese-made 35 mm gear for professionals didn't start bulking up until practical AF came in. And the Germans are completely out of 35 mm SLR-like digital cameras for pros market.

Japanese makers (in alphabetical order Canon and Nikon) abandoned the system RF camera for professional use before the Germans did, but after SLRs took hold Leica was stuck selling jewelery. Canon and Nikon RF cameras were very similar to, respectively, Leicas and Contaxes. No big differences in bulk or weight between Germany and Japan then.

The question suggests that the OP is confused about, um, history.

 

[benjiboy]

No, I never wonder why about such trivia.

 

[RobC]

Why did the physically smaller Japanese come up w/such big, heavy Pro equipment (Nikon, Mamiya), while the bigger Germans came up w/smaller, lighter equipment (Leica, Rollei)?? (And there's no racism in my question)

Because when you're that small size matters.

Or maybe just thought it does to everyone else...

 

[Sirius Glass]

Pentax MX is Japanese, as is the Nikon FG. They are quite small by SLR standards - especially when compared with the German Leica R series of SLRs.


Steve.

Especially since the German Leica R series of SLRs were Japanese designed Minoltas. Opps!

Don't you hate when that happens!

 

[cuthbert]

As if Minolta was bad.
Yawn.

You sure sound like a camera information God. Besides being a camera fanboy, is talent following?

I don't know, I let others judge...but let's talk about YOUR talent, I'm too humble to boast.

Where are your pics? In which photography exhibitions can I find them?

Medium format wise, I've always wondered how Leica never got to Manufacture a 6x6 120 RF. I get the sense that in the 50s it was about folding cameras, and perhaps the popular movement towards 35mm deemed it a non explored area. Curiously it took until the 80s-90s? To have such kind of camera as the Mamiya 6/7, etc.

A fixed/interchangeable MF RF, akin to an M camera, just grown for 120 might have found a nice niche itself.

I found it curious how the "Leica-Contax style RF" didn't appear until the 60s or so in Medium Format (but late for 6x6). while I was researching for a Fuji GW. We get a Fuji Texas Leica, but no leica itself.

I think it's a cultural thing: after all Barnack popularised the 35 mm because he wanted to make a smaller camera.

I am afraid that we will go off topic of original posting, but ...

Best nikon is F3, then F. I had those FM's and FE's - not as good as F3 and F. I had F2 as well - sold it - original F feels better. I used in past almost all nikons (except F4, F5, F6 and FM3A) and F3 is the best.
About FM/FE --> If you are shooting B&W and printing in the darkroom, full frame - then you start to appreciate 100% viewfinder.

Ok OK I don't want to provoke the F3 fanboys! I disengage from the F2 vs F3 debate!

 

[miha]

None of the Leica R cameras was made in Japan by Minolta, just a simple fact. Some R lenses were made there, fine lenses I must say.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Where are your pics? In which photography exhibitions can I find them?

Not a worthy criteria, many here do not post photographs for their own very good reason. I started posting on APUG and had copies ripped off, so I will not post photographs on the internet. I am too busy with my photography to set up and exhibit. If you want to see my work come and visit me.

 

[DREW WILEY]

?? I thought it was just the opposite!

 

[benjiboy]

Ever wonder where all the flies go in winter ?

 

[darkosaric]

Ok OK I don't want to provoke the F3 fanboys! I disengage from the F2 vs F3 debate!

 

[NB23]

I don't know, I let others judge...but let's talk about YOUR talent, I'm too humble to boast.

Where are your pics? In which photography exhibitions can I find them?

All I know is that When people look at my prints, I really enjoy the part when they fall back, look at me with a blank face and ask "it's really your work?"

And I answer "if you have a week of your life to spare, I'll let you look at my whole body of work"

 

[cuthbert]

None of the Leica R cameras was made in Japan by Minolta, just a simple fact. Some R lenses were made there, fine lenses I must say.

If you say so we believe it...assembled in Portugal or Germany from parts made in Japan sounds more acceptable? However, 99% of the engineering work was done in Japan, not in Leitz, where they "dressed up" the XD in different disguise, or are we also denying that shutter was made by Copal?

Anyway we already went through this in another thread, the topic here is "why Germans design small cameras and Japanese are just capable of making big cameras?" so the Leica R4-7 argument is invalid because it's a japanese camera customized for Leitz.

All I know is that When people look at my prints, I really enjoy the part when they fall back, look at me with a blank face and ask "it's really your work?"

And I answer "if you have a week of your life to spare, I'll let you look at my whole body of work"

Still I don't see your pics on this board so I can't appreciate your Talent. Out of curiosity do you also have a policy of not posting your pics online and reserve the right to call those who do "bad photographers" like another member of this board that keeps on posting on this thread without adding a thing to the discussion?

 

[darinwc]

No, not really. There were large and small cameras on both sides of the continent.
There are advantages to large cameras. Large viewfinder, thick sheet metal, more robust gearing, larger controls, firm grip, easier machining.
There are advantages to small cameras. Lighter weight, less bulk, less material used in construction, quieter operation.
Different companies weighted the options and made a variety of products.

There was no "trend" across the entire industry.

 

[MattKing]

It may be that the cameras designed by the various manufacturers reflect more closely the manufacturers assumptions about the marketplace (especially the North American market) than the preferences of their local market.

It would be interesting to compare any models that were sold only in the manufacturers' local markets.

 

[IloveTLRs]

... Olympus is also pretty small...the Germans used to make big SLRs while the Japs started the miniaturisation of the SLRs in the 70s with the big O. ...

 

[Sirius Glass]

When I sold cameras in the 1960's I would show customers cameras that would fit their hands. A large man would fumble with an Olympus Pen F. A small customer would have trouble reaching some of the control of a large camera. Many sales that I made were because I would guide the customer to the right sized cameras for them.

 

[miha]

If you say so we believe it...assembled in Portugal or Germany from parts made in Japan sounds more acceptable? However, 99% of the engineering work was done in Japan, not in Leitz, where they "dressed up" the XD in different disguise, or are we also denying that shutter was made by Copal?

Anyway we already went through this in another thread, the topic here is "why Germans design small cameras and Japanese are just capable of making big cameras?" so the Leica R4-7 argument is invalid because it's a japanese camera customized for Leitz.

Minolta ceased production of their XD-7 / XD-11 in 1984, but Leitz continued with their R6.2 for another 18 years, so the few internal parts that the companies shared must have been produced by Leizt later on. Not to mentions the exterior, the winding mechanism, motor drives, light meter, mirror box, etc that were totally unique to Leica form the very beginnings.

As for the size, maybe we should talk lenses as well? The few Nikkors that I have duplicated by Leitz were phisically bigger, but lighter. The Elmarit-R 28mm V1 or the Summicrom-R 90mm are probably the smallest in the 'class', but quite heavy.

 

[darkosaric]

Still I don't see your pics on this board so I can't appreciate your Talent. Out of curiosity do you also have a policy of not posting your pics online and reserve the right to call those who do "bad photographers" like another member of this board that keeps on posting on this thread without adding a thing to the discussion?

NB23 posts from time to time pictures of prints here in some threads - they are very very good .

 

[miha]

NB23 posts from time to time pictures of prints here in some threads - they are very very good .

Totally agreed.

 

[darkosaric]

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I cannot find now NB23 prints from Balkan - I like those even more than those from Cuba...

 

[cuthbert]

Minolta ceased production of their XD-7 / XD-11 in 1984, but Leitz continued with their R6.2 for another 18 years, so the few internal parts that the companies shared must have been produced by Leizt later on. Not to mentions the exterior, the winding mechanism, motor drives, light meter, mirror box, etc that were totally unique to Leica form the very beginnings.

That's completely invented as all the suppliers, especially Copal, were Japanese based.

NB23 posts from time to time pictures of prints here in some threads - they are very very good .

His skills with the camera don't justify online bullying as he previously did on this thread attacking me personally implying that I'm a talentless photographer capable just of talking about gear. Not even the talent of a Cartier Bresson would do that, and I'm surprised this behaviour is tolerated by the "moderators" on this boards.

Let's remember how this pointless discussion started:

Most of the Leica R cameras are particularly small.

Yes they are. But this is what happens on the internet: a festival of misinformations

Indeed: there are still people who think the R3,4,5,6 and 7 were made by Leica and not by Minolta!!!

You sure sound like a camera information God. Besides being a camera fanboy, is talent following?

Gentlemen, this is your Great Photographer...when he runs out of argument he starts with personal attacks, congratulations!

 

[miha]

That's completely invented as all the suppliers, especially Copal, were Japanese based.

Nothing is invented; Copal is not Minolta, and Motorola who supplied the CPUs for the R7 is not Japan based.

.

 

[theart]

As an aside, Germany and Japan are also home to the biggest players in the fountain pen industry, and pretty much across the board a Germain fine nib would be labeled medium or even bold coming out of Japan.