Ever Shoot a T50?

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Helge

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Speaking of taste,

I love the sound of the T50, and to others is fingernails on the chalkboard.
I think they vary quite a lot. Of all the T70s I've heard, some sound reluctant and grinding, while others has a smooth satisfying sound to them.
Probably has to do with the state of dryness of the lube.
Wear can't really be an issue that often, since non of these where professional cameras, and back in the day of domestic use, they probably on average have had a hundred rolls put through them, tops.
I've also noticed that the sound problem gets better, if you let the shutter/film advance run on repeat for some seconds, this further cooperates the theory of dry/missing lube.
Might be an idea to take one apart and see if some silicon lube would do good?
 

Helge

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Over the years here at Apug but also with camera collectors I learned that one cannot discuss camera design...

(And I even consider myself educated in industrial design.)
Maybe not if you discuss with stubborn idiots, who's intent and want is to "be right" and not learn new points of view and new facts. But there's refreshingly very few of those around here compared to other fora.
But it also of course comes down to patience, time, and actual knowledge, whether you feel it is a fruitful, worthwhile discussion.
 

Helge

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You can discuss taste and aesthetics seriously and philosophically, but not in the consumerist way you're suggesting. Any fool with money can buy branded goods, and believe they offer him bragging rights. The Canon T50 and T70 are not visually pleasing if your tastes run to a Nikon F or a Leica III, but encapsulate early 1980s Japanese design aimed at a western market, definitively.
The T50/70/80 is a natural continuation and extension of the virtues of functionalist industrial design of the 50s, 60s and 70s.
It clearly but subtly references modern Italian industrial design, Memphis Group ideas and Googie/MCM consumerist/mass manufacture embracing ideals (think Dieter Rams and Polaroid Oneshot/1000 rainbow etc).
Also it was absolutely not "aimed at a western market". Japan was and is a gigantic market, more than big enough to support itself. The original Japanese T70 commercial by Katsuhiro Otomo (of Akira fame) tells you a lot of what you need to know about the spirit and style the camera came out of:

People know more about aesthetics collectively/generally/subconsiously/in "the third place" than they are able to connote to others or explain to themselves, put on the spot. The famous canonical example, is the focus group tests of the Herman Miller Aeron chair. People in short said they hated it.
But they really didn't. They just could not put their own feelings, thoughts and connotations into proper words.
After a decade on the market it was the most sold office chair ever.

It's like the difference between active and passive vocabulary.
Bad taste persists, partly because people can't fully visualize and formulate what they actually want, and then go for nearest equivalent.
Or they are simply as previously alluded to, too stupid/undeducated/poor.
Or most often, a mix of the two.
Of course "bad taste" or perhaps better put; poor design, is far from always a bad thing, as it can be a powerful motor towards something else in various ways.
Right now, we seem stuck in a decades long rut though, with industrial design in general.

Also, cameras exist for the sole purpose of taking photographs, the aesthetics of which have nothing to do with the desirability or visual appeal of the camera.
This globally commonly spread false truism/platitude, is unfortunately still popular in the western world. But especially in the US it seems, where it appears to be big signal of virtue to utter as closing remarks to any discussion of (the evil, superficial) "design".
It's clearly false for a number reasons, the first two of the top of my head being:
A. The tools and environment (which the tools is clearly part of) clearly turns around and shapes the creator and if there are models/actors involved, their reaction to being photographed or filmed.
That happens in a multitude of ways, some subtle and some obvious.
To stay in the photography realm: HCB used a Leica with a 50mm all his life. He could easily have chosen any fixed lens rangefinder of good quality, after they became available in the forties and fifties, and have gotten exactly as good results. He didn't.
B. To many people is seems that industrial design is something extra, that can be tacked onto a product. Where the function and appearance can be separated out, in a naively positivist sense.
Not so! Form follows function.
Apperance in genreal often tells you a great deal about the product. It's history and the mentality that produced it.
Go back and have look at the man (or in fact men) who first put those words on paper (form follows function (and later form follows fun)) , and perhaps be surprised.
 
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blockend

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It clearly but subtly references modern Italian industrial design,
The T cameras look like A-Series in grey plastic, with the addition of an LCD. It's USP was all under the bonnet, auto-wind and focal length auto modes. It's impossible to imagine any Italian company putting italicized caps on anything. I briefly worked in photo marketing when the T50 came out, and face planted when I saw it. By the time the T90 emerged the design was German influenced, though the Japanese subsequently ran with the look sufficiently to make it their own.
Also it was absolutely not "aimed at a western market"
There were no indigenous Japanese design cues, if you compare the T-Series to contemporary cars or industrial design. The only oriental incursion is the Canon belt and braces logo which could have come from a Kei car and looks like an afterthought.
People know more about aesthetics collectively/generally/subconsiously/in "the third place" than they are able to connote to others or explain to themselves, put on the spot.
Sounds like postmodern French Marxist semiotics.
Bad taste persists, partly because people can't fully visualize and formulate what they actually want, and then go for nearest equivalent.
Or they are simply as previously alluded to, too stupid/undeducated/poor.
Bad taste is decided by a self-appointed social elite, there is no arbiter. If CoCo Chanel decides ladies will wear little black dresses rather than Dior's fabric abundant New Look, that's what they wear. After the fact both attain cultural simultaneity, in the same way a Kenneth Grange Kodak box camera is as cool as a Leica M3.
I have a book of vernacular interiors, an exhaustive photographic catalogue of European peasant houses from Ireland to Eastern Europe, and their aesthetics are far from "stupid". They're more colourful and cooler than any Swedish bent wood chair or William Morris floral explosion.
Right now, we seem stuck in a decades long rut though, with industrial design in general.
That's largely because health and safety has tied the hands of designers. Blame the EU and similar totalitarian bureaucracies.
To stay in the photography realm: HCB used a Leica with a 50mm all his life. He could easily have chosen any fixed lens rangefinder of good quality, after they became available in the forties and fifties, and have gotten exactly as good results. He didn't.
HCB also used 35mm lenses, but is less known for them. Images of him frequently show his camera with goggles. If that represents design efficiency, I'm a Dutchman.
To many people is seems that industrial design is something extra, that can be tacked onto a product
The T70 logo refutes your argument. As do HCBs goggles and modern product synonymous with their branding iconography.
 
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koraks

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I must have a t50 and a t70 somewhere, or perhaps only one of both. What I remember of them is that these were by far the most annoying, least usable SLR's I have ever touched. It's odd, because the t90 is, apart from the noise and the way it eats batteries, one of the most pleasant, functional and intuitive cameras I've used. It's almost like canon first conceived the t90 but decided to strip everything that's good from it, resulting in the t50 and the t70, and then released the t90 as if to say "look, we actually had a very good idea, but didn't want you to know just yet." Needless to say, my t50 and/or t70 is/are in a box somewhere and unlikely to emerge from it before I die and someone will have to sort out all my junk...
 

Helge

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The T cameras look like A-Series in grey plastic, with the addition of an LCD. It's USP was all under the bonnet, auto-wind and focal length auto modes. It's impossible to imagine any Italian company putting italicized caps on anything. I briefly worked in photo marketing when the T50 came out, and face planted when I saw it. By the time the T90 emerged the design was German influenced, though the Japanese subsequently ran with the look sufficiently to make it their own.

Have you ever had a look at Ettore Sottsass work? Memphis Group? There were many hugely influential Italian designers in the 60s 70s and 80s, with very alternative post modernistic styles. Now we seem to have forgotten most of them and tend assimilate Italian design into the rest of the world.
Big bold letters used as much for their ornamental worth, as for conveying information was very much in style.
One of the most extreme examples of this was the Mission 777 amplifier that was the logo, from 82.
Also have a look at the LA Olympic games design from 84. Same use of logotype as ornament.
And yes, the T series first three bodies was very much a respectful nod to the earlier 70s models. I said as much. Though in new materials and with a different take one the overall vibe.

Luigi Colani (who just died this September) designed the T90. He's was a controversial figure in design circles. And not in the cool way. I see him as kind of a poor mans Philippe Starck, who was again a kind of poor mans designer. He no doubt influenced camera design immensely right up until now, I'd say mostly for the bad.
Its telling that Canon went back to the sharper distinct lines with the first EOS cameras instead of Colanis pseudo art nouveau/H.R.Giger/"organic" inspired design.

There were no indigenous Japanese design cues, if you compare the T-Series to contemporary cars or industrial design. The only oriental incursion is the Canon belt and braces logo which could have come from a Kei car and looks like an afterthought.

Japanese design is difficult to discuss briefly, since so much of modernistic design was in huge part inspired by classic Japanese design, and has in large part been absorbed back into Japan and so on in a cycle, in the unique way that Japan is a cultural sponge that absorbs, transforms and epitomizes cultural influences.
I at least find it hard to describe a distinct Japanese style of that time, with few words, even though no doubt it is there. Do you have suggestions?
Anyhow, there is the usual whimsy, and slight playfulness combined with an ability to not overbuild and getting the essence of things. That is present in the T-70 I think.

Sounds like postmodern French Marxist semiotics.
More like Carl Jung - Man and His Symbols.

Bad taste is decided by a self-appointed social elite, there is no arbiter. If CoCo Chanel decides ladies will wear little black dresses rather than Dior's fabric abundant New Look, that's what they wear. After the fact both attain cultural simultaneity, in the same way a Kenneth Grange Kodak box camera is as cool as a Leica M3.
I have a book of vernacular interiors, an exhaustive photographic catalogue of European peasant houses from Ireland to Eastern Europe, and their aesthetics are far from "stupid". They're more colourful and cooler than any Swedish bent wood chair or William Morris floral explosion.

If what the "elite" tries to push doesn't resonate somewhat or somehow with the zeitgeist and state of the nation, it won't fly. For every Chanel there is a thousand other would be Chanels you've never heard of. C. Dior had tried multiple times with other collections. It was only when he went completely against the grain and took cues from turn of the century fashion that he succeeded.

William Morris and Finish, Swedish and Danish MCM furniture was very much inspired by traditional, rural/pastoral vernacular arts and crafts and architecture in different ways. In the same ways the Shakers where, your own countries De Stijl and the Arts and Crafts movement were (I'd say Morris was a little before but certainly inspiring that movement).
They didn't take that inspiration because they thought that traditional crafts where "stupid".
What was your point?

That's largely because health and safety has tied the hands of designers. Blame the EU and similar totalitarian bureaucracies.
I fail to see that. Could you provide some examples?

HCB also used 35mm lenses, but is less known for them. Images of him frequently show his camera with goggles. If that represents design efficiency, I'm a Dutchman.
He used a lot of other lenses. But the main part of his work, and his most famous photos where taken with a 50.

The T70 logo refutes your argument. As do HCBs goggles and modern product synonymous with their branding iconography.
The logo (and the goggles to some extent) goes hand in hand with the overall design.
The kind of chic, high class cheap, making a virtue of mass manufacture. Same with the best of the Sonys Walkmans and Nintendos Game & Watch. Classic Japanese design of the period.
Sure, you could remove the logo and be left with a blander but workable design, in the same way you could remove a lot of other stuff from the camera and still have it work.
But the logo ads to the spirit of the camera. It's not extraneous to it.
 
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AgX

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Luigi Colani (who just died this September) designed the T90.

He did not. Canon gave the T90 project both to a team of their own and the Colani studio. Finally a Canon team amalgamated both designs into what we know as T90.
 

Helge

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He did not. Canon gave the T90 project both to a team of their own and the Colani studio. Finally a Canon team amalgamated both designs into what we know as T90.
Interesting! Thanks. Do you have a source on that? I’d like to read more.
Tells you something about the kind of designer he was, that that kind of arrangement was necessary.
I don’t see Giorgetto Giugiaro (designer of the F3, Nikon EM and L35AF) entering such an arrangement.
 

Helge

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I must have a t50 and a t70 somewhere, or perhaps only one of both. What I remember of them is that these were by far the most annoying, least usable SLR's I have ever touched. It's odd, because the t90 is, apart from the noise and the way it eats batteries, one of the most pleasant, functional and intuitive cameras I've used. It's almost like canon first conceived the t90 but decided to strip everything that's good from it, resulting in the t50 and the t70, and then released the t90 as if to say "look, we actually had a very good idea, but didn't want you to know just yet." Needless to say, my t50 and/or t70 is/are in a box somewhere and unlikely to emerge from it before I die and someone will have to sort out all my junk...
What makes you dislike the T70 so much?
Lack of aperture priority? Quite common on Canon and easy worked around.
 

AgX

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I don’t see Giorgetto Giugiaro (designer of the F3, Nikon EM and L35AF) entering such an arrangement [with Colani.]
We do not know of the arrangement, or if there was a arrangement at all, aside of ordering a design.
 
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Helge

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We do not know of the arrangement, but as his his name shows up there likely was an arrangement, aside of ordering a design.
No, I meant entering an arrangement (with Nikon) where his design was significantly altered.
 
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Cholentpot

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I must have a t50 and a t70 somewhere, or perhaps only one of both. What I remember of them is that these were by far the most annoying, least usable SLR's I have ever touched. It's odd, because the t90 is, apart from the noise and the way it eats batteries, one of the most pleasant, functional and intuitive cameras I've used. It's almost like canon first conceived the t90 but decided to strip everything that's good from it, resulting in the t50 and the t70, and then released the t90 as if to say "look, we actually had a very good idea, but didn't want you to know just yet." Needless to say, my t50 and/or t70 is/are in a box somewhere and unlikely to emerge from it before I die and someone will have to sort out all my junk...

I agree, if it was 198x I would hate the thing. But it's not, and the thing is just amusing to use these days. If I had no alternative I would really hate the T50, then again I would despise half the cameras I own if that's the one I was stuck with. I enjoy shooting on an Argus C3, but if that's all I had in 1987 I would hate the living daylights out of it.
 

koraks

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What makes you dislike the T70 so much?
Lack of aperture priority? Quite common on Canon and easy worked around.
Among others. Overall it just doesn't sit comfortably in my hand either. And it doesn't have the t90's IMO unsurpassed metering system to make up for its flaws. It's purely a personal and subjective thing, if course. Technically it's a good piece of kit.

Oh and yes, there are many cameras from the 70s and 80s with no aperture priority that I dislike for that reason. It can be worked around, but it's kind of nice not to have to work around things you don't like.
 

Helge

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Among others. Overall it just doesn't sit comfortably in my hand either. And it doesn't have the t90's IMO unsurpassed metering system to make up for its flaws. It's purely a personal and subjective thing, if course. Technically it's a good piece of kit.

Oh and yes, there are many cameras from the 70s and 80s with no aperture priority that I dislike for that reason. It can be worked around, but it's kind of nice not to have to work around things you don't like.
Ergonomics was one of the aspects of the T70 that was praised in reviews at the time of release I see.
Not to put to fine a point on it, but the grip and the rough waffle pattern thumb rest makes it very nice to hold and use. Better than A-1 for example.
Metering is just a ripoff of the Olympus collect-a-reading, which I can understand why it wasn’t copied more.
It’s slow, takes practice to use and is easy to get worse results than average (sic) results from.
Metering on T70 is definitely above average.
There is spot-ish metering and there is exposure lock.
What more do you want?
It is a consumer camera after all.
The tele program will almost always choose the widest aperture possible, and you can control the aperture quite precisely in shutter mode.
 

koraks

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I just didn't like using it. I don't deny others may have a different opinion - remember I said it was subjective and personal. Also I have to say I'm a 1980s kid; the first SLR I got my little fingers around was an EOS that had just came out then. In terms of ergonomics, even that quite basic EOS was a significant improvement over what was fashionable only a few years prior to it.
In terms of metering, the t70 is of course perfectly usable, but put it next to the t90 with its true spot meter and multi-spot comparison, obviously it's much more basic. Yes, the t90 was aimed at pros (and affluent amateurs) while the t70 was a prosumer camera, but that sort of segmentation holds very little relevance for me, today. I have both, and several other cameras across several brands and from the t-series only the t90 sees some occasional use simply because I have many other options that are all preferable to me.

It's a typical situation where that remark of Ken Rockwell applies: if the t70 was the only camera I had, I would make perfectly good photos with it. But it's not the only one I have, and consequently, I don't make any pictures with it. What gives?
 
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waynecrider

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I was just going to pickup a T70 for fun and for the extra features over the T50, a little more info/control, but after reading the manual online I thought, really, what drugs were they doing when they designed the camera and wrote the manuel? So I'm just gonna stick with my straight forward Maxxum 70 and use the T50 on the side a couple of times.
 

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Have you ever had a look at Ettore Sottsass work? Memphis Group?
Of course.
very alternative post modernistic styles.
Post modernism was a white flag to design.
One of the most extreme examples of this was the Mission 777 amplifier that was the logo, from 82
Monumentalism was pastiche. Change the typeface make it orange and it's the spirit of '66.
Luigi Colani (who just died this September) designed the T90. He's was a controversial figure in design circles. And not in the cool way. I see him as kind of a poor mans Philippe Starck, who was again a kind of poor mans designer.
More fin de siècle. The 1930s meets the jet age. Dan Dare lemon squeezers for people who obsess how many cuff buttons are appropriate for leisure wear.
I at least find it hard to describe a distinct Japanese style of that time, with few words, even though no doubt it is there.
Fussy homages to Auto Union. A shadow of what they were in the 1960s and early 70s, when Japanese cars looked genuinely Japanese. Was it the Datsun Laurel that had embossed dragons on its vinyl seats? They subsequently became self conscious and Europhile, neither fish nor fowl.
More like Carl Jung - Man and His Symbols.
Jung's symbols are universal. It read more like Derrida's existential shrug.
Dior had tried multiple times with other collections. It was only when he went completely against the grain and took cues from turn of the century fashion that he succeeded.
The main reason is fabric suddenly became available again post-WW2. Women wanted to stop looking like men. Chanel, totalitarian that she was, took that puritanical view that the way to show a lady's wealth was to strip it back to nothing. Woman as machine. Interesting article: https://catholicherald.co.uk/magazine/coco-chanel-the-savonarola-of-fashion/
William Morris
Morrris owned the largest arsenic mine in the country. His wallpapers were killers. Literally.
Danish MCM furniture was very much inspired by traditional
Puritanical traditions, certainly. The dubious assumption that less is more. For people who assume churches should be austere, with all their fairground exuberance and doom paintings whitewashed to rationality.
the same ways the Shakers where
Paupers furniture for millionaires. The perfect backdrop to a Chanel dress.
I fail to see that. Could you provide some examples?
Crumplezones. Brutalism. Brutalism with knobs on (postmodernism). Fire retardant boudoir clothing.
The logo (and the goggles to some extent) goes hand in hand with the overall design.
In retrospect. I remember the T-series coming out, and they looked tacky. I like them now because they are tacky. That's what 40 years of sentiment can do. The goggles were just silly. It's the reason why Leica offered progressively wider focal lengths in the rangefinders.
I don't think we're going to agree on the life-enhancing qualities of corporations.
 

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I have a lot of 35mm SLRs (really should do some pruning this spring) and some expensive (originally) high spec ones like F3, F100, FA and a good assortment of lenses for them.
But somehow when it really comes down to it and I’m about to do some serious shooting, I most often pack the T70 with three primes and a flash. That is really an ideal setup for me.
It’s light, fast, dependable and reasonably flexible.
I’ve never had a body fail, or even get fuzzy.
You can always get batteries.
And it’s a pleasure to use.
 

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In terms of ergonomics, even that quite basic EOS was a significant improvement over what was fashionable only a few years prior to it.
It's a truism that the better the camera ergonomics, the worse the aesthetics. And vice versa. Somebody worked out that if you fill a fist-shaped space with hard stuff, a camera is much easier to hold. A Nikon F looks infinitely better than an F5, but holding an F for prolonged periods without a strap is for optimists only.

I prefer the A-series to the T - though I own some of each - because the innovations of the later Canons were insufficient trade off for their shortcomings. The film advance can only appeal to nostalgists. Take out the AA batteries and the memory relies on the tiny cell which soon dies, and requires professional replacement. I can live without the auto mode pushing the speed or aperture a notch when I change focal lengths. The FD lens colour doesn't match the body. Reviews spoke a lot of promotional rot at the time, one famously claimed the T70 was just too good for amateurs. The T90 I have time for, but it shares the battery flaw and adds some of its own, like sticky shutter magnets.

There are cameras one likes, and cameras one admires. Until the film advance gave up the ghost recently, my most used 35mm SLR was the Yashica FR. It's unremarkable in every way, and I own much better cameras. Like preferring a McDonalds and Coke when the fridge has a fillet steak and there's a good Burgundy on the shelf. People are strange.
 

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The maxxum 7000/9000 is what the t series should have looked like, imho
 

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Post modernism was a white flag to design.
It was a long time coming, inevitable and a breath of fresh air.
It's also something that has occured multiple times through history. Mannerism from the 16th century for example.

Monumentalism was pastiche. Change the typeface make it orange and it's the spirit of '66.

That's not monumentalism. But yes, the eighties consumer goods and designs reference Googie style and pop art a lot. You could say it was almost a continuation of those styles, after a break in the seventies, with some Art Deco and some high-tech neon thrown in.
Really very much a medley/riff of the best of the twentieth century, expertly rolled into one homogenous style.

More fin de siècle. The 1930s meets the jet age. Dan Dare lemon squeezers for people who obsess how many cuff buttons are appropriate for leisure wear.
You just referenced the whole first half of the twentieth century, in the first part of the above.
It's hard to say exactly what Colanis style grew out of, but it seems to be at least partly, related to the whole fascination with the freedom of plastic and plastic moulding that fully unfolded in the 60s, coupled with the psychedelic auto drawing, blobby doodle style trend.
He was far from the most talented at that though. My own countries Verner Panton for instance was far more talented.

Fussy homages to Auto Union. A shadow of what they were in the 1960s and early 70s, when Japanese cars looked genuinely Japanese. Was it the Datsun Laurel that had embossed dragons on its vinyl seats? They subsequently became self conscious and Europhile, neither fish nor fowl.

While there is cuteness and great sense of distilled essence in for example the Honda S500, it still also looks much like cars from either side of the Atlantic from the same time. And those basic traits where definitely not lost in the 80s.
The japanese have always been great at playing on preconceived notions and clichés on the archetypical Japanese. Both internally and externally in exported goods (Yellow Magic Orchestra, one of the quintessential electronic groups of the seventies and eighties, started just like that. A homage/parody of Debussy's orientalistic music and other western notions on the typical Japanese) .
The vinyl dragons I suspect is just that. Post modern if anything.

Jung's symbols are universal. It read more like Derrida's existential shrug.
Jungs ideas encompass both universal and personal symbols and notions, and those in the third place.
I think you need to brush up on Jung.

I have nothing against Derridas thinking (some would say it is even quite banal at heart), but he is very misrepresented and misunderstood by people often citing him as influence. His ideas being employed in a misrepresented way, by so called deconstructionist architects, is shameful in a profound way,.

We have on one hand "firmware" tendencies. IE what we are naturally attracted, repulsed or indeed just react to.
That is more or less universal
Then there is the complex social fabric of more or less solid notions, ideas, shapes, patterns and colour combinations that our culture is build on. In other words: History in the very broad sense.
The last is to a surprisingly large extent also universal, especially in recent times. But of course shaped by local circumstance.
For example even a little kid could make a very good guess, if some cultural artefact is Chinese or Egyptian.
Design is simply references to those two: Appeals to inherent human tendencies, and references to history.

The main reason is fabric suddenly became available again post-WW2. Women wanted to stop looking like men. Chanel, totalitarian that she was, took that puritanical view that the way to show a lady's wealth was to strip it back to nothing. Woman as machine. Interesting article: https://catholicherald.co.uk/magazine/coco-chanel-the-savonarola-of-fashion/
That is at least the commonly told story. One should always be careful in blindly accepting those stories, which are just cited ad verbum without much provenance attached.

Puritanical traditions, certainly. The dubious assumption that less is more. For people who assume churches should be austere, with all their fairground exuberance and doom paintings whitewashed to rationality.

I think you need to see the homes and interiors of the straw men you chalk up here.
Less is more van der Rohe, was very inspired by traditional Japanese architecture. The cultural ideals of Iki, and Wabi-Sabi running trough his architecture.
So not much to do with Lutheranism or Calvinism.
Look at where his contemporary friend Le Corbusier ended up though!

Crumplezones. Brutalism. Brutalism with knobs on (postmodernism). Fire retardant boudoir clothing.

Again I fail to see what that has to do with challenges in and to industrial design?
"Brutalism with knobs", very humorous, but not very apt. Brutalism/Béton brut or raw concrete is not inherent to post modernist architecture.
It could be, and often is used as a reference to the sixties and seventies architecture. You might say PoMo Architecture is sometimes brutalism with paint and tiles. Less snappy, but more true.

In retrospect. I remember the T-series coming out, and they looked tacky. I like them now because they are tacky. That's what 40 years of sentiment can do. The goggles were just silly. It's the reason why Leica offered progressively wider focal lengths in the rangefinders.
I don't think we're going to agree on the life-enhancing qualities of corporations.
It was and is supposed to look "tacky". That is the whole point!
Sophisticated whimsy is often lost, or misinterpreted sadly, because it looks "on the nose" to people with a stick up their arse, or little sophistication.
Those same people are often heard uttering words such as "decadence" or "academic" when they are told the "correct" viewpoint/interpretation.
A classic example is Batman 66 and the original Star Trek. Some of the first really mainstream pop culture products to employ post modernistic elements in the modern sense.
They made a virtue out of the low production resources available and the whole rather silly (when you really think about it) premise of both shows.
My guess is that many, perhaps most, of the viewers didn't, and still don't get it, especially among the young.
 
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blockend

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It was a long time coming, inevitable and a breath of fresh air.
It really wasn't. Postmodern architecture was mostly ornamented modern. It plundered c20th design to create a palimpsest of clashing styles. Pop Art was its cultural forbear. It aped the declarations of French intellectuals, who claimed we'd entered an atemporal age where truth was negotiable, and meaning was a skin deep. Design had run out of new ideas, so churned out old ones with a new label. It was vacuous, and celebrated its vacuousness as a virtue.
You just referenced the whole first half of the twentieth century, in the first part of the above.
Not the whole c20th, just the obsession with the aerodynamic, which counterpointed then then-dominant sharp edged look. Computer drawing tools enabled complex compound curves to be reproduced on an industrial level.
That is at least the commonly told story.
No, she really did enjoy the company of Nazis. The kindest description would be opportunist. Her clothes eschewed the pretty for the austere, which has unavoidable connotations in female attire.
I think you need to see the homes and interiors of the straw men you chalk up here.
What straw men? I'm an enthusiast for the vernacular. Bottom up over top down, organic over the imposed. You described such design as that of the poor and the stupid. For Brits those sound like criticisms of Brexit voters who didn't know what they were doing. Or Hilary's "deplorables".
Sophisticated whimsy is often lost
It's lost because innovation is hidden behind an in-joke for those who thinks themselves culturally superior. A Hello Kitty logo on a small car is infantilism, arrested development pretending to be cutting edge. There was no need to put breakfast cereal packet iconography on a camera. Canon went back to a conventional typeface for its EOS cameras.
A classic example is Batman 66
Batman was already broken as a story. Making it camp was a gag for Madison Avenue types. It's been ruined in different ways since, turning a revenge epic into a psychological discourse.
and the original Star Trek
TV Sci-Fi was still in the spandex phase, there was no reflexivity in 60s Star Trek production values. It was a peace-love story that explored racial difference and civil rights issues with alien life forms.
 
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