Eugene Atget Appreciation

[snusmumriken]

I don't see any illustration of influence in those photos.

I think there could be, in terms of choice of subject matter. Because of the precedent set by Atget, it’s OK to photograph a newspaper stall or a fire surround or do a selfie in a mirror. I’m not saying no-one else could have thought of this, but many people (eg the pictorialists) would have thought the subjects mundane. I have photos of my own where I realise I must have pressed the button because I subconsciously recognised a theme from somewhere else; so now I have a collection of pale imitations.

And that issue of precedents/influences is an example (IMHO) where critical commentary can discover things about a photographer that the photographer didn’t know themselves.

 

[Don_ih]

I think there could be

I'm not disagreeing with that. But there could be influence from any number of places. Undoubtedly, there was. But influence tends to appear more as the kind of hair used in a brush than the paint the brush applies.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

I think there could be, in terms of choice of subject matter. Because of the precedent set by Atget, it’s OK to photograph a newspaper stall or a fire surround or do a selfie in a mirror. I’m not saying no-one else could have thought of this, but many people (eg the pictorialists) would have thought the subjects mundane. I have photos of my own where I realise I must have pressed the button because I subconsciously recognised a theme from somewhere else; so now I have a collection of pale imitations.

And that issue of precedents/influences is an example (IMHO) where critical commentary can discover things about a photographer that the photographer didn’t know themselves.

I'm not disagreeing with that. But there could be influence from any number of places. Undoubtedly, there was. But influence tends to appear more as the kind of hair used in a brush than the paint the brush applies.

Important to remember that Walker Evans wanted to be a writer before he became a photographer. He was always clear about the fact that his main influences in photography were literary, not photographic. First and foremost Gustave Flaubert and Charles Baudelaire. To quote him:

"I wasn't very conscious of it then, but I know now that Flaubert's aesthetic is absolutely mine. Flaubert's method I think I incorporated almost unconsciously, but anyhow used it in two ways: his realism and naturalism both, and his objectivitty of treatment; the non-appearance of the author, the non-subjectivity. That is literally applicable to the way I want to use a camera and I do. But spiritually, however, it is Baudelaire who is the influence on me."

He did get acquainted with Atget's work after Berenice Abbott brought back negatives to the US. That said, putting photos of Atget and Evans side by side attempting to show influence is somewhat disingenuous, as we do not know how many photographs of Atget he actually saw or, more to the point, if he saw these specific photos at all.

The one thing Evans has in common with Atget is the belief that objects are representative of the culture they belong to—or belonged to in the case of Atget. It's entirely possible that Evans wasn't influenced by Atget, but that he did see in him a kindred spirit after viewing some of his photographs — Evans, it's important to note, decribed Atget as "his photographic precedent," which seems to say that he saw Atget's works not as an influence but as a validation that his own views were evolving in the right direction. To quote Evans again:

"I don't like to look at too much of Atget's work because I am too close to that in style myself. I didn't discover him until I had been going for quite a while; and when I did, I was quite electrified and alarmed... It's a little residue of insecurity and fear of such magnificent strength and style there. If it happens to border on yours, it makes you wonder how original you are. Of course the world is full of instances of people intellectually and artistically discovering a style by themselves and being unaware of someone doing the same thing."

So yes, there is a link between them; what exactly that link is is not that easy to figure out, and defining it as "influence" is taking quite a intellectual shortcut.

Moreover, we should remember that Evans' output was much more varied in genre than Atget. His "Atget-type" photographs represent only a small part of his production, once you add to it the portraits done in the South for the FSA, his work in Cuba or his subway series.

 

[nikos79]

Very interesting comments!
Just to give proper credit the screenshots from the photos I sent were part from a lecture given by John Szarkowsky on Eugène Atget

 

[nikos79]

I also find Walker Evans to be a very 'difficult' photographer, much like Atget.
It took me a while to understand his work, and even now, I don’t think I fully appreciate it. If you were to show his photographs to most people who aren't deeply into photography, I believe the response would be something like, 'So, what?' It’s one of those bodies of work that challenges you, and even when you grasp it, it’s not always easy to admire.


I would like also to give some of Walker Evans quotes that could explain his approach and moreover link him to Atget somehow

"I consider photography to be a very difficult act, as you want to achieve something both suggestive and at the same time mysterious and realistic. And this is something important and rare. Almost accidental. It resembles hunting, where again you shoot to kill."

"I believe that most artists actually work for a very small audience."

"The secret of photography is that the camera takes on the character and personality of the one holding it. The spirit works through the camera. Better yet, it works within it. The true photographer who is an artist will not present a romantic photograph, as so many others have done, trying with tricks to disguise photography and push it toward painting—something ridiculous. Photography must have the courage to present itself for what it is, namely a composition created by the camera and the eye with chemicals and paper."

"Anyone with faith and cultivation will show it in their work. Good photography is precise, and that’s how it should be. It reflects cultivation, if there is cultivation. For this reason, until recently, photography didn’t have status, as it was usually made by uncultivated individuals. I remember always saying in my lessons that students should seek education and a cultured life. And by doing so, they would make better photographs."

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Very interesting comments!
Just to give proper credit the screenshots from the photos I sent were part from a lecture given by John Szarkowsky on Eugène Atget

Szarkowsky went as far as to brand Evans as "Atget's most famous student", or something like that. As much as I admire Szarkowsky in general, I think his insistance in seeing in Atget an "influence" on Evans, as interesting as it is, was misguided.

 

[nikos79]

Szarkowsky went as far as to brand Evans as "Atget's most famous student", or something like that. As much as I admire Szarkowsky in general, I think his insistance in seeing in Atget an "influence" on Evans, as interesting as it is, was misguided.

Haha did he really say that?
He also admitted in the lecture that is his favourite photographer and the one he considers "First among equals"

 

[nikos79]

Actually in Berenice Abbott New York I can see the immediate influnces. Also HCB in his very early photos had taken many shop windows trying to imitate Atget

 

[Alex Benjamin]

To get back to the original spirit of this thread, let's contemplate :

 

[nikos79]

To get back to the original spirit of this thread, lets contemplate :

Incredible!

 

[Mike Lopez]

Haha did he really say that?
He also admitted in the lecture that is his favourite photographer and the one he considers "First among equals"

I know that you are sharing that Szarkowski said that about Atget, but Atget’s name is missing from your post.

 

[snusmumriken]

To get back to the original spirit of this thread, lets contemplate :

Have you tried putting your thumb over the vignetting at the top right? It completely changes the effect.

 

[Don_ih]

To get back to the original spirit of this thread, lets contemplate :

Reminds me of Bill Brandt.

 

[nikos79]

Reminds me of Bill Brandt.

View attachment 393658

Definitely. Bill Brandt held a great admiration of Atget

 

[nikos79]

I know that you are sharing that Szarkowski said that about Atget, but Atget’s name is missing from your post.

It’s like Fight Club — the first rule of admiring Atget is… you don’t need to say his name
I am pretty sure if you whisper ‘Atget’ three times into a darkroom mirror, a perfectly composed photo of an empty Parisian street appears

 

[nikos79]

Have you tried putting your thumb over the vignetting at the top right? It completely changes the effect.

 

[cliveh]

To get back to the original spirit of this thread, lets contemplate :

If you or I took a picture like this, just imagine how many photographic judges would say there is not enough shadow detail in the foreground and the print needs dodging. This is because they are not looking at picture presented before them.

 

[Mike Lopez]

It’s like Fight Club — the first rule of admiring Atget is… you don’t need to say his name
I am pretty sure if you whisper ‘Atget’ three times into a darkroom mirror, a perfectly composed photo of an empty Parisian street appears

 

[nikos79]

If you or I took a picture like this, just imagine how many photographic judges would say there is not enough shadow detail in the foreground and the print needs dodging. This is because they are not looking at picture presented before them.

Even like that still looks amazing! And bit more contemporary, making Atget timeless

 

[nikos79]

Some more

 

[DREW WILEY]

Ah, Alex ... even every technical "flaw" in that Atget domed building etc shot has its place in a brilliant composition.

 

[albireo]

To get back to the original spirit of this thread, let's contemplate :

Jaw-dropping.

One thing I've always wondered is if this beige dominant in the printed/scanned reproductions of his images is intended, or rather an artefact or scanning the plates in e.g. full colour mode?

In other words were the prints he sold also tinted as above or were they just black and white.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Responding to Snusmumriken per lion image posted in 221, that is a different lion than the one I had in mind, but I'd hardly call it a "pussy", and would otherwise regard the image as genius. Let me elaborate. The lion in this case seems alive too, regally surveying his realm, which happens to be more glorious than any scene in the Lion King movie. The twisty spikes below him remind us of his fiercely guarded domain, his defile and lair. The ball beneath his paw is a conspicuous symbol of his power of conquest (just as the sculptor himself no doubt had in mind); and the reflecting pool, of just how big and valuable his territorial domain is; anyone intruding would become instant prey. Yet there they are, human statues way across the water on the other side, tempting fate while he keenly eyes them in the distance.

Atget takes the whole scenario as it was originally planned by the architects of the King to enhance his own glory and status, and heightens it even further into a mystical allegory composed of light. And I don't think I'm imagining or exaggerating that. At some level, consciously or not, Atget had a distinct impression of exactly what he was doing; otherwise, he wouldn't have been able to do the same kind of thing over and over again. It certainly wasn't just luck.

 

[Don_ih]

this beige dominant

Atget used glass plates and contact printed them on printing-out-paper (mostly albumen) and gold toned them. All of his prints ranged from beige to reddish brown. Most images you find online seem to be from scanned prints. I don't know if any of these images are scans directly from his glass plates.

 

[albireo]

Atget used glass plates and contact printed them on printing-out-paper (mostly albumen) and gold toned them. All of his prints ranged from beige to reddish brown. Most images you find online seem to be from scanned prints. I don't know if any of these images are scans directly from his glass plates.

thanks Don