As a teacher, my aim was to attempt to teach a method of approaching artists' works — primarily photographers and filmmakers in this context — with the goal of drawing greater intellectual enjoyment. However, I never tried to "explain" or "decipher" works of art, as I believe the charm of art lies in the fact that everything is both apparent and simultaneously mysterious. The viewer does not need to discover or interpret something. The approach is the challenge, not the interpretation. This is achieved through familiarity with the artistic language, both generally regarding each art form and specifically regarding each creator. Consequently, my teaching was not based on history (in general) or the history of each art form (in particular), especially given that the histories of photography and cinema span only a very brief period. My objective was, and remains, to become acquainted with the works of significant creators and to recognize and appreciate their personal artistic language.
Of course, I do not disregard the value that a historical approach to the evolution of each art form can offer. However, what interests me most is the inexplicable presence of artistic genius in the world of art. It is true that a historian can trace, analyze, and perhaps even justify the paths of art over the centuries, but they will not succeed, armed with history, facts, economics, or politics, in explaining the emergence of the greatest creators. I acknowledge and respect historians' need to segment periods and, for the sake of thorough study, to seek connections and attempt to discern common characteristics that, over time and across regions, mark artistic evolution. However, I believe that in the case of photography (and cinema, which emerged from it), there are some more specialized characteristics that do not favor the search for specific directions. Even if certain categories are hastily identified, invented, and articulated, I do not think they contribute to the enjoyment of art.
In the end, photography is all about enjoyment — immersing yourself in the images, seeing the world through the photographer's eyes, and feeling uplifted by the experience.
I can’t resist sharing another text from my teacher that speaks to that very sense of enjoyment.
Factually, we cannot know whether this also applies to other art forms or not. Humans have painted, sculpted and drawn in past ages long before we have any information on what religion they practiced. Moreover, the question whether an art form at any point (at its beginning, or somewhere along the way) was intertwined with religion is barely relevant for its potential for use, enjoyment and present or future embedding in a cultural context. So simply put, regardless if what he says is true (which is unverifiable, even though it's stated as a fact), it's irrelevant.First and foremost, it is the only art form that does not owe its origin to religion.
Define "materiality", and then apply that definition to a photographic print. The inevitable conclusion is that the author has, as said above, a narrowminded view of the medium.these images have neither materiality nor uniqueness
Which is just as true, or untrue, for any other art form. Photography isn't different in this respect.Consequently, what matters is the artist's gaze and the personal world it expresses.
One could argue, yes, but one would find their argument shattered to pieces upon closer scrutiny.One could even argue that photography, the most "objective" art form — using an extremely precise mechanical recording and reproduction of already living images — ultimately becomes the most personal, as the only intervention by the artist is the selection driven by their gaze.
Right, couple of things happening here. Note the 'only' bit at the front - we're getting exclusive here. Thank you Mr. Enlightened Critic for guiding us to the Only Twue Way.The only version of photographic art that might lend itself to classification into schools and trends reminiscent of those known from the world of painting is photography that seeks to identify with a visual approach, thus shifting the focus from the gaze and transformation to its material surface and the external management of its messages.
You seem to keep making implicit assumptions about my appreciation of Atget's photography. Whether or not, the extent to which, the time I may or may not have spent trying to, and the ways in which I may or may not appreciate Atget's works have for the most part not been mentioned in the first place.What I hope is that Eugene Atget might enhance that enjoyment if you give his work a chance and dive into his world. If not, that’s perfectly fine — he may not resonate with you, or perhaps the timing isn’t right.
I’m sorry to be critical, but I don’t feel that friendly and smiling is what you have been here. Not the usual Photrio welcome to a new member.If a pair of Jehova's witnesses come knocking at my door in the hopes of bringing me salvation, I politely, smilingly and in a friendly way tell them to go take a hike. Which they do, and that ensures that the exchange remains friendly and polite.
I’m sorry to be critical, but I don’t feel that friendly and smiling is what you have been here. Not the usual Photrio welcome to a new member.
Going back to snusmumriken's comment on a lion, I don't know exactly which picture with its sculptural lion was is in question. I recall a seemingly simple one which can actually be rather compelling. But quite often, sculptural men and creatures in Atget's prints almost look alive - not necessarily real - but vivified as sculptures per se in an uncanny manner. So did his pictures of manakins and merry-go-round horses. That characteristic is probably one of the things which drew Surrealists to his pictures. You've got not only animisms and anthropomorphisms in them, but almost haunted renditions of that. The lion isn't just there atop its stone support with a clawed paw slightly reaching out, but reaching out at YOU.
You seem to admire your teacher very much, nikos79, so I'm sorry for the following, but a lot of this — not all, but a whole lot of it — goes against everything I've learned from decades of being an artist, of being a teacher, of reading, listening to and looking at artworks, of meeting artists, of reading art history and criticism, of thinking about art.
To me, as far as attempting to understand art, artists and artworks, the "I take mystery over facts and history" stance added to the sentimental and romanesque veneration of genius and greatness amounts to intellectual malpractice.
Again, sorry.
I am glad that this is what you find photography to be all about for you.
But I trust that you will understand when I say that that is a fairly limiting definition for what photography is all about.
I've spent my life around photography - sometimes I've made my living from or as a result of it, sometimes it has been simply a compelling interest of mine. And the number of people in my life who are involved in it is quite frankly more than I can count. Commercial photographers, photo journalists, laboratory techs, retail sales people, wedding and portrait and baby portrait photographers, sales reps, repair technicians, dental photographers (yep) and a myriad of others I've worked with and known each have different viewpoints about photography - and that is just those who worked in the related industries.
I've also met and talked with museum curators who have both photographic expertise in their own fields, and they no doubt have their own outlook on what photography is about - an outlook that is particularly relevant when considering Atget.
I can assure you that photography is about many, many, many more things.
I’ve read that “Atget photographed Paris as though it were a crime scene.”
Kind of yesYou seem to admire your teacher very much, nikos79,
What I see in that text is mostly a set of assumptions on the nature of photography which are debatable at best, and factually incorrect at worst. The way I read that text, the man has an incredibly restricted, limited view of the medium as well as the art. 'Good for him; what gives', you might say - but the implication is that he disregards many ways of appreciating or assessing photographic works based on his misdirected reasoning.
I think it might be prudent to extract this flogging session from the main thread.
You must be joking, Don. The emotional responses elicited by Nikos quietly offering his and his teacher's views on Atget and art are actually making this thread come alive. They are almost art in themselves.
@nikos79 - Just to let you know that I for one am enjoying your contributions to this thread very much. I'm spending my day looking after my toddler with gastroenteritis and I'm going through all your posts with interest between a projectile vomit session and the next one.
You must be joking, Don. The emotional responses elicited by Nikos quietly offering his and his teacher's views on Atget and art are actually making this thread come alive. They are almost art in themselves.
Fine, leave it. But maybe it's time to stop needlessly ripping apart what the guy's teacher said. That guy, after all, is not here to either explain what he means or verify that he's being accurately represented. So writing an essay tearing apart what he is purported to have said is a waste of time. So make a new thread entitled "Let's all criticize what some guy we don't know may have said, removed from context, and possibly translated" and put the diatribe there.
maybe it's time to stop needlessly ripping apart what the guy's teacher said
For me, art thrives on criticism and comparisons. I find it important to discuss why Todd Webb, in my opinion, is far superior to Alex Webb — even though both are talented — or why I consider Martin Parr and Alec Soth to be boring and shallow. Sadly, I don’t see much of that kind of critique anymore, even from curators.
I agree, and I don't need to say more on the subject than what I've said.
You're on a slippery slope, here. Critique and criticism aren't the same thing. Criticism is trying to understand artists and artworks on their own terms. It has no use for personal hierarchies of taste — i.e., that you find one superior to the other, or that you think one is a genius while the other is boring and shallow. Criticism of Alec Soth implies examining his work from points of view that are relevant to him — the idea of community, for example, which is extremely important in his approach to photography and his chosing of photographic subjects, or the use of the large-format 8x10 and how that affects the picture-taking and our reception, how he view narrative in his books, etc. Criticism has nothing to do with personal taste and opinions.
Art does not thrive on such comparisons. Never has. But one's artistic mind and imagination does thrive on attempting to understand things, and people, on their own terms, and not categorize them in advance.
Comparisons are always limiting because your deciding in advance who fits into the pidgeonhole and who doesn't. The reason why you don't see much of it is because people have long realize how sterile the "I believe A is more of a genius than B" approach is.
It’s all good on my end, guys.
some more photos of him next to Walker Evans to see the influences
Ultimately, it’s this personal connection that defines our imaginary museum, and it is this subjective resonance that gives art its enduring value.
Subjective resonance may be what gives art value for you personally - but that all sounds like a way to objectively devalue what you don't like. So, when someone says to you, "Isn't this photo by Martin Parr great?" you can feel confident telling them "It's crap."
I don't see any illustration of influence in those photos. Influence isn't necessarily readily available to be seen in individual examples but may be understood from the work overall. Or it may be so ephemeral, it isn't noticeable at all.
I couldn't care less if the argument was all levelled at you, since you're here.
The detached, objective manner — a clear-eyed documentation that strips away the romanticism often associated with the subject matter. There’s no attempt to make the scene look beautiful or dramatic; it’s simply presented as it is. This clinical approach that quiet, observational gaze and many more...
lacking deeper substance
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