EU Common Charger Directive.

[Ivo Stunga]

This issue creeps into my head from time to time and I think that there's the habit of annual gadget purchase baked into the legislation:

CAT1
If you have this habit, you end up with many incompatible chargers and cables over time. That exactly was the problem before smartphone and Micro USB arrived - not fun like at all. Manufacturers did put out various chargers/connectors in various current phone models just because reinventing wheel is fun?
A mess created by emergent tech.

CAT2
You don't purchase a smartphone yearly as you don't see the need to replace something that works perfectly. As a result you aren't drowning in unicorn chargers and cables. You have some and they're rather outdated or expired even and make noises/heat up, feel unsafe to use with modern high-current devices, or they simply won't charge. So you need a new, modern charger, but devices now come without it and it requires a separate purchase - an unfair mess, because CAT1 people are creating mountains of e-waste on my behalf.


As I see it, it was done mainly to make Apple behave, because everyone else already competes with latest tech and speeds, but
until just recently Apple used USB 2 speeds (that are generation or two behind) with their new devices and lightning cables, doing their customer extra good service by keeping them outdated with overpriced tech lol.
Why's so? Simple - business.
Ever heard of "Made For iPhone" thing/policy? Apple cashed in sweet commission by requesting a chip be baked into the cable that tells iPhone that it's the real deal - the kosher, licensed and paid-for accesory. Not very competitive and not really doing a service to customer, so EU felt the need to step in to pull some teeth out of Apple. That MFI thing is a monopolistic cancer, nothing more.
Now Apple users too can enjoy modern open tech and better speeds, improved connectivity and connector longevity, and should really be thankful for this EU initiative. But will they see this truth?

Good riddance - Apple's Lightning connector was extra dumb and fragile - it exposes live contacts to environment and a little moisture would bridge the exposed pins and corrode them (electrolysis), ruining the expensive cable. And this standard often killed iPhone USB control chip - I was replacing Tristar chip on iPhone boards for 4 generations of Apple devices. No such problems in any Android device whatsoever.

Good riddance.


But again - regulate something too tightly and good intentions can turn sour - I don't like current tech being baked into the law.
We will have another law when another and better connector pops up, or is C the final form of USB? We don't have the benefit of hindsight yet...
I'd be more careful with this aspect, but I don't make them damn laws. There's the Japanese example where institutions were/are required by law to handle documents on floppy - that once hot data storage solution!

 

[koraks]

Manufacturers did put out various chargers/connectors in various current phone models just because reinventing wheel is fun?

I don't think they believed it was fun. I've never seen any engineer think like that. I have seen many engineers become enthusiastic when presented with new possibilities to improve performance in some way - notably portability/volume of the device, in this case. If you look at the evolution of USB connectors and note the size of the connector vs. its current carrying capacity, there's a very clear pattern.

ir they simply won't charge. So you need a new charger

IDK about you but I've never had to replace the AC adapter before the phone somehow became unattractive to use, or inoperable. Also, virtually all modern phones at this point (sans Apple) use USB-C and have done so for several years. It's already a de-facto standard in the phone world. USB AC adapters with USB-C connectors are cheap & cheerful.

Apple cashes in sweet commission by requesting a chip be baked into the cable that tells iPhone that it's the kosher, licensed and paid-for accesory

USB-C involves active identification of cables/connectors in some scenarios. USB-C is not dictated by Apple. Switching to USB-C will not change the fact that cables will become (have already become) more complex.

I do agree with your argument that it's tricky to base legislation on a contemporary technology implementation of which we all know/can expect that it'll change in the next few years. Then again, isn't that exactly what the legislation attempts to achieve - to lengthen the technological lifecycle in order to reduce waste, annoyance etc?

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Made many edits in my post above and here's the link for said Japanese floppy curiosity:

Japan's government finally says goodbye to floppy disks

The use of the floppy disk, which was still used in some government agencies in Japan, has now been scrapped.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Ivo Stunga]

I don't think they believed it was fun. I've never seen any engineer think like that. I have seen many engineers become enthusiastic when presented with new possibilities to improve performance in some way - notably portability/volume of the device, in this case. If you look at the evolution of USB connectors and note the size of the connector vs. its current carrying capacity, there's a very clear pattern.

Agreed and I can see that, therefore the "emergent tech" mess note It simply was the time of experimentation and another format war almost. Now market should know better. And seems to know.

IDK about you but I've never had to replace the AC adapter before the phone somehow became unattractive to use, or inoperable. Also, virtually all modern phones at this point (sans Apple) use USB-C and have done so for several years. It's already a de-facto standard

I tend to use phone until it breaks physically, therefore I don't purchase gadgets that often. When phone dies, I tend to keep the charger as I see it just as a power supply that terminates in X connector. Currently I have USB-C smartphone, but one before that used Micro and no fast charging support whatsoever, and one before that - Apple product with it's stupid exposed cable and no fast charging too.
Soo, if I'd buy a new phone again today, it'd come without a charger and if I'd wanted to enjoy all modern charging benefits, I'd have to go out and buy a separate charger now - would have to invest time and efford to find out suitable/best. A kind of annoyance on itself, an extra layer of complexity because people like new gadgets, but don't like ewaste, and are approaching this awkwardly from behind. You cannot have the cake and eat it.

USB-C involves active identification of cables/connectors in some scenarios. USB-C is not dictated by Apple. Switching to USB-C will not change the fact that cables will become (have already become) more complex.

It's not the complexity that bugs me. It's the proprietary {stuff} Apple is loving so much.
Handshake is important, monopolistic commission to Apple - not so much

 

[koraks]

Moderator note: it's fine to have a strong opinion and to express it. While doing so, please stick within the limits of reasonable formulations and cut down on the cusswords, politically charged remarks etc. I've had to redact several instances of such from your past few posts. Kindly take it upon yourself to filter what you're saying just a little bit. This isn't Reddit.

If we all show a little bit of restraint, we may be able to keep this thread alive.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Ok, I'll water down my brine next time around, sorry.

 

[Chan Tran]

It's a bit of a misnomer. It should have been labeled 'Common Power Adapter Directive' instead; that would have been more technically correct. Charging (if applicable) is managed by the device itself and whatever onboard charging electronics it requires for its batteries. Safety provisions are part of this device (over-current, over-voltage, over-charging and over-discharging protection) and the battery pack itself (thermal protection). They're not implemented in the power source.

This is the reason that I don't like it. All of these devices have rechargeable batteries because they are portable devices, things that you expect to bring with you. It's much better to leave charging circuitry in the dedicated charger which you can leave behind than in the device you bring with you.

 

[koraks]

Ok, I'll water down my brine next time around, sorry.

Thanks, much appreciated!

It's much better to leave charging circuitry in the dedicated charger which you can leave behind than in the device you bring with you.

I don't think that's feasible or attractive given the variety of storage technology within devices.

 

[ic-racer]

The 'common charging' requirements will apply to all handheld mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, portable speakers, handheld videogame consoles, e-readers, earbuds, keyboards, mice, and portable navigation systems

Thank you for the link but if one were to read it, it is irrelevant to anything here.

 

[Chan Tran]

Thank you for the link but if one were to read it, it is irrelevant to anything here.

If you stick to APUG then it's not relevant but if you consider digital camera then it is relevant. Nikon with their new Z50ii started not to include a charger because that would be considered bundling.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Well, back to the analogy of wall plugs, although certain styles are far more common than others, in both the US and Europe, and also elsewhere, there are in fact multiple styles, and specifically to prevent devices from being plugged into the wrong voltage or amperage limitation. At any local electrician's supply house, there would be at least twenty different official styles here.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

No, that's an unrelated issue. That is really to do with battery chemistry and charging conditions, which is essentially unrelated to the power adapter as such.

If you use the wrong power adapter, don't you increase the possibility of fires, even with small devices like cameras, strobes, etc??

 

[4season]

IMO, this is a good thing for photographers because

• The additional circuitry needed is tiny and inexpensive
• Less gadgetry to carry on extended stays away from home
• There's still the option to purchase a dedicated, even multi-battery, charger if needed.

USB-PD with the C-type connector is about the closest we've ever come to a universal standard, so let's take advantage of it. If newer connector types arise, the directive can be updated, or perhaps the C connector will simply hang around for a very long time, as the A-type connector has.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

This issue creeps into my head from time to time and I think that there's the habit of annual gadget purchase baked into the legislation:

CAT1
If you have this habit, you end up with many incompatible chargers and cables over time. That exactly was the problem before smartphone and Micro USB arrived - not fun like at all. Manufacturers did put out various chargers/connectors in various current phone models just because reinventing wheel is fun?
A mess created by emergent tech.

CAT2
You don't purchase a smartphone yearly as you don't see the need to replace something that works perfectly. As a result you aren't drowning in unicorn chargers and cables. You have some and they're rather outdated or expired even and make noises/heat up, feel unsafe to use with modern high-current devices, or they simply won't charge. So you need a new, modern charger, but devices now come without it and it requires a separate purchase - an unfair mess, because CAT1 people are creating mountains of e-waste on my behalf.


As I see it, it was done mainly to make Apple behave, because everyone else already competes with latest tech and speeds, but
until just recently Apple used USB 2 speeds (that are generation or two behind) with their new devices and lightning cables, doing their customer extra good service by keeping them outdated with overpriced tech lol.
Why's so? Simple - business.
Ever heard of "Made For iPhone" thing/policy? Apple cashed in sweet commission by requesting a chip be baked into the cable that tells iPhone that it's the real deal - the kosher, licensed and paid-for accesory. Not very competitive and not really doing a service to customer, so EU felt the need to step in to pull some teeth out of Apple. That MFI thing is a monopolistic cancer, nothing more.
Now Apple users too can enjoy modern open tech and better speeds, improved connectivity and connector longevity, and should really be thankful for this EU initiative. But will they see this truth?

Good riddance - Apple's Lightning connector was extra dumb and fragile - it exposes live contacts to environment and a little moisture would bridge the exposed pins and corrode them (electrolysis), ruining the expensive cable. And this standard often killed iPhone USB control chip - I was replacing Tristar chip on iPhone boards for 4 generations of Apple devices. No such problems in any Android device whatsoever.

Good riddance.


But again - regulate something too tightly and good intentions can turn sour - I don't like current tech being baked into the law.
We will have another law when another and better connector pops up, or is C the final form of USB? We don't have the benefit of hindsight yet...
I'd be more careful with this aspect, but I don't make them damn laws. There's the Japanese example where institutions were/are required by law to handle documents on floppy - that once hot data storage solution!

One thing nice about lightning cable is that it can be inserted either way, unlike my Android Micro charging cable whose connection is polarized.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Yes. A small annoyance solved by USB-C whist keeping the essential small bits protected inside

 

[Ian Grant]

Speaking from reality, where all the devices I currently use have USB-C charging leads, I'm glad to see the back of two different Apple leads and various mini, micro, and other variants. The bottom line is the output of the USB socket you are charging from, I tend to use UK wall plug sockets with 2 or 3 built in USB ports.

In practice, I've seen zero downsides to manufacturers moving to USB-C, and a bonus is data transfer between devices can use the same leads, and that's being forgotten. It's common sense, it did need legislation to make Apple comply.

Something else overlooked is travelling, US. EU, and UK plug sockets are all different, I've just returned from Spain, all I needed was my USB to USB-C lead, I knew my friend had chargers, but that she only had Apple/2xMicro USB, leads, I'd given her my spares 6 months ago.

Now all those pre-USB-C leads I have left are boxed and very rarely needed, instead I have USB-C extensions into sockets, and it's a no-brainer, so easy, and flexible.

Ian

 

[koraks]

If you use the wrong power adapter, don't you increase the possibility of fires, even with small devices like cameras, strobes, etc??

That's a seemingly simple question, but when you break it down into real failure scenarios, it becomes a little more complex. It depends mostly in what causes of an electrical fire you're looking at and also how the devices you're using are implemented. So it's specific to the actual equipment used, operating conditions etc. Because of this complexity, the general advice has always been (and will remain) to use the adapter that's specifically intended for the device. That excludes a whole slew of combinations that would also work safely, but since manufacturers and sellers couldn't possibly educate every individual user on how to make an informed choice, it's just more realistic to keep it at the conservative advice that's always been given. The straight answer to your question would boil down to "sometimes, not necessarily so."

Of course, one effect of the directive discussed here is that through standardization, users will become less dependent on the specific advice given by the manufacturer. After all, any given USB-C/PD adapter that's rated in accordance with the requirements of any given device should work fine, even if they were not sold together or expressly intended to be used together.

In practice, I've seen zero downsides to manufacturers moving to USB-C, and a bonus is data transfer between devices can use the same leads, and that's being forgotten.

I agree. USB-C is really nice, and on top of its electrical and data transfer effectiveness, it's also physically much more resilient than e.g. Micro-USB, which in particular was prone to being yanked off of a PCB if a device dropped or was handled roughly.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Speaking from reality, where all the devices I currently use have USB-C charging leads, I'm glad to see the back of two different Apple leads and various mini, micro, and other variants. The bottom line is the output of the USB socket you are charging from, I tend to use UK wall plug sockets with 2 or 3 built in USB ports.

In practice, I've seen zero downsides to manufacturers moving to USB-C, and a bonus is data transfer between devices can use the same leads, and that's being forgotten. It's common sense, it did need legislation to make Apple comply.

Something else overlooked is travelling, US. EU, and UK plug sockets are all different, I've just returned from Spain, all I needed was my USB to USB-C lead, I knew my friend had chargers, but that she only had Apple/2xMicro USB, leads, I'd given her my spares 6 months ago.

Now all those pre-USB-C leads I have left are boxed and very rarely needed, instead I have USB-C extensions into sockets, and it's a no-brainer, so easy, and flexible.

Ian

My problem is that my wireless chargers only use macro cables from the wall outlet, even though my new cellphone and laptop take USB-C cables. So I need to have the C type installed as well and keep the old micros. Then there are different chargers for each of my cameras and other equipment. It all gets too confusing at times.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

That's a seemingly simple question, but when you break it down into real failure scenarios, it becomes a little more complex. It depends mostly in what causes of an electrical fire you're looking at and also how the devices you're using are implemented. So it's specific to the actual equipment used, operating conditions etc. Because of this complexity, the general advice has always been (and will remain) to use the adapter that's specifically intended for the device. That excludes a whole slew of combinations that would also work safely, but since manufacturers and sellers couldn't possibly educate every individual user on how to make an informed choice, it's just more realistic to keep it at the conservative advice that's always been given. The straight answer to your question would boil down to "sometimes, not necessarily so."

Of course, one effect of the directive discussed here is that through standardization, users will become less dependent on the specific advice given by the manufacturer. After all, any given USB-C/PD adapter that's rated in accordance with the requirements of any given device should work fine, even if they were not sold together or expressly intended to be used together.



I agree. USB-C is really nice, and on top of its electrical and data transfer effectiveness, it's also physically much more resilient than e.g. Micro-USB, which in particular was prone to being yanked off of a PCB if a device dropped or was handled roughly.

I have electric toothbrushes sitting ijn their AC chargers all the time as well as many landline phone in their AC to DC charges. Water-piks, etc. Wireless cellphone chargers also plugged in to the AC outlets. Do these ever catch on fire?

 

[Sirius Glass]

That's a seemingly simple question, but when you break it down into real failure scenarios, it becomes a little more complex. It depends mostly in what causes of an electrical fire you're looking at and also how the devices you're using are implemented. So it's specific to the actual equipment used, operating conditions etc. Because of this complexity, the general advice has always been (and will remain) to use the adapter that's specifically intended for the device. That excludes a whole slew of combinations that would also work safely, but since manufacturers and sellers couldn't possibly educate every individual user on how to make an informed choice, it's just more realistic to keep it at the conservative advice that's always been given. The straight answer to your question would boil down to "sometimes, not necessarily so."

Of course, one effect of the directive discussed here is that through standardization, users will become less dependent on the specific advice given by the manufacturer. After all, any given USB-C/PD adapter that's rated in accordance with the requirements of any given device should work fine, even if they were not sold together or expressly intended to be used together.



I agree. USB-C is really nice, and on top of its electrical and data transfer effectiveness, it's also physically much more resilient than e.g. Micro-USB, which in particular was prone to being yanked off of a PCB if a device dropped or was handled roughly.

All of my devices are USB not USB-C.

 

[koraks]

Do these ever catch on fire?

Fortunately only exceedingly rarely, but yes, it happens.

All of my devices are USB not USB-C.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[BradS]

All of my devices are USB not USB-C.

That new Nikon you have mentioned elsewhere can be charged via the USB-C connector on the side.

 

[Chan Tran]

All of my devices are USB not USB-C.

So if you order a new camera like the Nikon Z50ii be sure to order a charger as well. Due to the "Unbundling" rule in the directive a charger is not included with the camera.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Alan - Anyone who leaves chargers plugged in is taking a gamble. It all depends on the quality of the charger, but also your wall wiring as well. Houses are burning down all the time. And it's not due to a just lot of junk lithium batteries out there, because those are basically symptomatic of the junk-everything products they come with, including questionable chargers. Multi-outlet power strips also come into play. They're voodoo with e-bike chargers; and local fire departments have begun mandatory inspections of e-bike shops in that respect.

I'm not too worried about our Mac computers, which are obviously high quality and relatively low wattage demand. But now that all kinds of things are cordless, and predominantly trashy quality cordless, there is good reason for concern. It amazes me just how much outright counterfeit brand name cordless products there are even on Amazon Prime listings. If the price is too good to be true, that's exactly the case.

Generic batteries also spook the heck out of me. I have a lot of background having to deal with the consequences of those, due to our repair department. It came to the point that the city Fire Marshall wouldn't even allow us to test those anymore - too risky. Any generic battery which showed up was fully plastic wrapped, and set aside in a barrel outside the building for weekly transport straight to hazmat.
True industrial batteries, along with their chargers, are made much differently.

 

[Sirius Glass]

That new Nikon you have mentioned elsewhere can be charged via the USB-C connector on the side.

You are correct. I had forgotten about that because I use batteries and have battery chargers.