ETRSI 135W back - user manual anyone?

[igor.burshteyn]

Well, when I read on the net that Bronica ETRSI 135W back is "reasonably complicated to load" I thought it doesn't apply to me. But then my first film with this back came out unexposed - blank! I mean, film advanced in back when I advanced camera film crank, dark slide was out, exposure after exposure - all 24 (or so) of them came out blank! Film (Ilford XP2 super) looks light gray. Now I am trying to figure out what did I screw up in loading - user manual for Bronica 135W back, anyone?

 

[Ole]

I may have one somewhere, but I've still managed to screw up a couple of films with it.

Every time I use it I first sit down and look hard at it until I understand which way it's supposed to work - so that I don't try to expose through the film base (again).

 

[John Koehrer]

Edge markings?

 

[archphoto]

As long as the emulsion side faces the lens and the film is transported you should be OK.

 

[Peter Black]

If the 135W ETRS back works on the same design as the SQA one, you need to check out the link below.

http://mysite.verizon.net/fowler/photo/bronica135.htm

 

[Ole]

Yes, it's similar. Only a little bit tighter and more fiddly.

 

[lomomagix]

You can find the manual here (as well as manuals for some other Bronica accessories):
http://www.myphotoweb.com/Zenza_bronica_camera/zenza_en/index.htm

 

[igor.burshteyn]

Many thanks for information, especially to lomomagix - that was exactly what I looked for!
Well, new film is loaded, will see how it comes out.
Btw, does Zenzanon PE 75mm lens have enough resolution for 135? Will results be comparable with good 50mm lens in 135 format?

 

[igor.burshteyn]

Well, it becomes "curiouser and curiouser" with every roll. Update - just facts:
- second film from 135W came out blank - exactly as first one; film is not exposed, numbering on edges is present;
- film was loaded properly - this time I am sure, emulsion side to the lens;
- mechanically film advance worked - all cranks on the back turned as they should;
- 120 back shot with the same lenses/camera combination yielded 15 well exposed frames - no slightest trace of any problem;
Now the most interesting part of the story:
- with 135W back fitted to the camera lens' leaf shutter just closes completely at the exposure time - I mean, blank exposures resulted from leaf shutter NOT exposing film, at all;
- when back is off the camera (no back at all/multiple exposures are set) - everything is perfect - all exposures are timed as expected and lens stops down properly;
- when 120 back is on - everything is OK as well.
Now, I am puzzled. I mean, completely. Can anybody help (and save my sanity)?

 

[wiltw]

There may be an interlock issue with the back. I once bought a used ETRSi roll film back, and the pin which senses film advance would not get actuated properly. Thusly, when you fired the shutter, the mirror would not swing up fully, so the lens shutter never opened! This was an intermittent thing, so I'd get some shots but not others. I had the send both the body and the back to Tamron to get this fixed.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Well, when I read on the net that Bronica ETRSI 135W back is "reasonably complicated to load" I thought it doesn't apply to me. But then my first film with this back came out unexposed - blank! I mean, film advanced in back when I advanced camera film crank, dark slide was out, exposure after exposure - all 24 (or so) of them came out blank! Film (Ilford XP2 super) looks light gray. Now I am trying to figure out what did I screw up in loading - user manual for Bronica 135W back, anyone?

Igor,

Try http://www.butkus.org/chinon/bronica.htm for Bronica manuals.

Steve

 

[igor.burshteyn]

There may be an interlock issue with the back. I once bought a used ETRSi roll film back, and the pin which senses film advance would not get actuated properly. Thusly, when you fired the shutter, the mirror would not swing up fully, so the lens shutter never opened! This was an intermittent thing, so I'd get some shots but not others. I had the send both the body and the back to Tamron to get this fixed.

I actuated shutter with open back on camera - guess what? That's exactly what happens to my Bronica! Many thanks for help with this issue. Interesting that 120 back is ok on camera (at least on only 120 film I exposed all frames were exposed properly).

 

[igor.burshteyn]

Now when my sanity is saved, question arises - can it be DYI repair? Is it only 135W back that needs adjustment, or body and back must be adjusted together? I loved idea to have 35mm panoramic back coupled with 40mm PE lens. 135W back-to-camera interface looks identical to one of my 120 back - 2 pins, that's it. Now I remember that I fitted Leaf digital back (with Kapture group adapter) on exactly this camera for a few shots, combo worked well. So it must be 135W back that needs adjustment.

 

[wiltw]

Igor,
Tamron wanted me to send both the body and the offending 120 back to them, to adjust the back! (all my other 120/220 backs were fine) That was the only time they needed the body, too. I would speculate that if you are not a camera repair guy, you not try the repair yourself. Just grinding down the pin a bit at a time seems like it might fix the problem, but you might not know if grinding it too short renders the back inoperable by doing so!

 

[wiltw]

Igor, is it still possible to get a digital back adapter for the ETR body? I would love to have a digital back for that!

 

[igor.burshteyn]

wiltw -
Kapture Group
http://www.kapturegroup.com/bronica/bronica.html
Silvestri
http://www.silvestricamera.com/eng/prodotti_eng/digital accessories/digital_accessories.htm
Proper setup requires OneShot cable release, at least Leaf back would not sync with lens shutter without it.
I believe that whatever back coupled with whatever camera by means of mechanical adapter, will require calibration in order to assure correct flange-to-sensor distance.

 

[igor.burshteyn]

Update on 135W back problem - I paid attention that when camera with 135W back points down, it always exposes properly, and when camera points up, it always exposes black frame. I finally will bring 135W back to the local Bronica equipment importer, will see whether they can cope with this problem. I still like an idea of getting panoramic 24x54mm negatives with Bronica 40mm PE lens.

 

[wiltw]

Update on 135W back problem - I paid attention that when camera with 135W back points down, it always exposes properly, and when camera points up, it always exposes black frame. I finally will bring 135W back to the local Bronica equipment importer, will see whether they can cope with this problem. I still like an idea of getting panoramic 24x54mm negatives with Bronica 40mm PE lens.

I'd have to play with 35mm back, but perhaps the film advance interlock pin protrudes into the body farther when the back points down, causing the reflect mirror to bind and not swing up fully, so the shutter is never opened. (I had a similar problem with a used 120 back that I purchased a long time ago, and sent to Bronica with the body to repair the pin length).

Why use 35mm film for panorama...crop the 120 film frame from 42x55 to 24x55 and you have the same end result! Is it an emulsion availability advantage that you want?

 

[pjferrante]

The Bronica 135W 35mm "panoramic" film back is a HUGE waist of money. Cropping the 6x4.5 frame to a "panoramic" aspect ratio produces the same result. Additionally, the crop can be optimized and placed anywhere from the upper to the lower part of the 6x4.5 frame. Any frame on the roll can be given the "panoramic" treatment instead of committing the whole roll to panoramas. Worried about wasting film? You can buy a whole lot of film and maybe a lens or two for the price of a 135W film back.

 

[neilt3]

The Bronica 135W 35mm "panoramic" film back is a HUGE waist of money. Cropping the 6x4.5 frame to a "panoramic" aspect ratio produces the same result. Additionally, the crop can be optimized and placed anywhere from the upper to the lower part of the 6x4.5 frame. Any frame on the roll can be given the "panoramic" treatment instead of committing the whole roll to panoramas. Worried about wasting film? You can buy a whole lot of film and maybe a lens or two for the price of a 135W film back.

Those panoramic backs must really upset you to dig up a 10 year old long dead thread to vent your anger on !!!!

As it happens I have both the standard 135 back and panoramic back for my ETRSi for when I know I'll be using them , usually when I'm away on holiday travelling the country in my old campervan .
They come in handy with a bit of colour film in them .
Usually I have Ilford FP4 or HP5 in one 645 back and Rollei Infrared in another .
Colour film tends to be just used by me in a 35mm SLR , even then just as an additional body to one loaded with B&W . ( I tend to just use digital for colour stuff )
So if I'm out with the Bronica an additional back is easier to carry than another camera and corresponding lenses .
I also sometimes use the standard 135 back with my 500mm lens for wildlife shots where shooting 120 would be a huge waste of film .

What film and a couple of lenses are you referring to cost wise ?
I bought both my backs together for less than the cost of a 75mm standard lens on its own.

 

[abruzzi]

Current price on the ETR 135W is upwards of $400, with the 135N selling for $150-$200. I’d buy a 135W if it was $150, but the current price is a bit crazy.

 

[macfred]

I got my 135-W panoramic back two years ago for about 150,- Euros from the UK (though it doesn't work troublefree usually... ).
Nowadays I tend to use 120 film with the 135-W focussing screen for composing panoramic photographs.

 

[neilt3]

Seems to be some silly prices around , though I guess these are asking prices and not selling prices .
Though if the demands there .......
It pays to wait and shop around , I got mine for much less .

The only issue I have with one of mine is that it pop's open too easy .
I prevent that happening with a bit of electrical insulation tape on the top of it .