ETRSI 135W back - user manual anyone?

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by igor.burshteyn, Mar 6, 2009.

  1. igor.burshteyn

    igor.burshteyn Member

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    Well, when I read on the net that Bronica ETRSI 135W back is "reasonably complicated to load" I thought it doesn't apply to me. But then my first film with this back came out unexposed - blank! I mean, film advanced in back when I advanced camera film crank, dark slide was out, exposure after exposure - all 24 (or so) of them came out blank! Film (Ilford XP2 super) looks light gray. Now I am trying to figure out what did I screw up in loading - user manual for Bronica 135W back, anyone?
     
  2. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I may have one somewhere, but I've still managed to screw up a couple of films with it.

    Every time I use it I first sit down and look hard at it until I understand which way it's supposed to work - so that I don't try to expose through the film base (again).
     
  3. John Koehrer

    John Koehrer Subscriber
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    Edge markings?
     
  4. archphoto

    archphoto Member

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    As long as the emulsion side faces the lens and the film is transported you should be OK.
     
  5. Peter Black

    Peter Black Subscriber
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  6. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, it's similar. Only a little bit tighter and more fiddly. :smile:
     
  7. lomomagix

    lomomagix Member

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  8. OP
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    igor.burshteyn

    igor.burshteyn Member

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    Many thanks for information, especially to lomomagix - that was exactly what I looked for!
    Well, new film is loaded, will see how it comes out.
    Btw, does Zenzanon PE 75mm lens have enough resolution for 135? Will results be comparable with good 50mm lens in 135 format?
     
  9. OP
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    igor.burshteyn

    igor.burshteyn Member

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    Well, it becomes "curiouser and curiouser" with every roll. Update - just facts:
    - second film from 135W came out blank - exactly as first one; film is not exposed, numbering on edges is present;
    - film was loaded properly - this time I am sure, emulsion side to the lens;
    - mechanically film advance worked - all cranks on the back turned as they should;
    - 120 back shot with the same lenses/camera combination yielded 15 well exposed frames - no slightest trace of any problem;
    Now the most interesting part of the story:
    - with 135W back fitted to the camera lens' leaf shutter just closes completely at the exposure time - I mean, blank exposures resulted from leaf shutter NOT exposing film, at all;
    - when back is off the camera (no back at all/multiple exposures are set) - everything is perfect - all exposures are timed as expected and lens stops down properly;
    - when 120 back is on - everything is OK as well.
    Now, I am puzzled. I mean, completely. Can anybody help (and save my sanity)?
     
  10. wiltw

    wiltw Subscriber
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    There may be an interlock issue with the back. I once bought a used ETRSi roll film back, and the pin which senses film advance would not get actuated properly. Thusly, when you fired the shutter, the mirror would not swing up fully, so the lens shutter never opened! This was an intermittent thing, so I'd get some shots but not others. I had the send both the body and the back to Tamron to get this fixed.
     
  11. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber
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    Igor,

    Try http://www.butkus.org/chinon/bronica.htm for Bronica manuals.

    Steve
     
  12. OP
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    igor.burshteyn

    igor.burshteyn Member

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    I actuated shutter with open back on camera - guess what? That's exactly what happens to my Bronica! Many thanks for help with this issue. Interesting that 120 back is ok on camera (at least on only 120 film I exposed all frames were exposed properly).
     
  13. OP
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    igor.burshteyn

    igor.burshteyn Member

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    Now when my sanity is saved, question arises - can it be DYI repair? Is it only 135W back that needs adjustment, or body and back must be adjusted together? I loved idea to have 35mm panoramic back coupled with 40mm PE lens. 135W back-to-camera interface looks identical to one of my 120 back - 2 pins, that's it. Now I remember that I fitted Leaf digital back (with Kapture group adapter) on exactly this camera for a few shots, combo worked well. So it must be 135W back that needs adjustment.
     
  14. wiltw

    wiltw Subscriber
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    Igor,
    Tamron wanted me to send both the body and the offending 120 back to them, to adjust the back! (all my other 120/220 backs were fine) That was the only time they needed the body, too. I would speculate that if you are not a camera repair guy, you not try the repair yourself. Just grinding down the pin a bit at a time seems like it might fix the problem, but you might not know if grinding it too short renders the back inoperable by doing so!
     
  15. wiltw

    wiltw Subscriber
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    Igor, is it still possible to get a digital back adapter for the ETR body? I would love to have a digital back for that!
     
  16. OP
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    igor.burshteyn

    igor.burshteyn Member

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  17. OP
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    igor.burshteyn

    igor.burshteyn Member

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    Update on 135W back problem - I paid attention that when camera with 135W back points down, it always exposes properly, and when camera points up, it always exposes black frame. I finally will bring 135W back to the local Bronica equipment importer, will see whether they can cope with this problem. I still like an idea of getting panoramic 24x54mm negatives with Bronica 40mm PE lens.
     
  18. wiltw

    wiltw Subscriber
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    I'd have to play with 35mm back, but perhaps the film advance interlock pin protrudes into the body farther when the back points down, causing the reflect mirror to bind and not swing up fully, so the shutter is never opened. (I had a similar problem with a used 120 back that I purchased a long time ago, and sent to Bronica with the body to repair the pin length).

    Why use 35mm film for panorama...crop the 120 film frame from 42x55 to 24x55 and you have the same end result! Is it an emulsion availability advantage that you want?
     
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