Ethol LPD

[SuzanneR]

Talk to me about this paper developer...

I decided to try it with a neutral paper, and compare to dektol. So, I had a tray of dektol, and a tray of the LPD, and exposed two prints at a time, put one on the dektol, and one in the LPD. The difference between the two, it seemed to me, was very subtle, and quite hard to tell the prints apart. That said, I do think the dektol prints had slightly deeper blacks.

At my next session, I just had the LPD out, and I felt like I was having real trouble getting a good, deep black. In fact, I was printing an image that I was happy with, and was just making a couple of copies of it... when suddenly, the last copy was way too light. I suspect that the temperature of the developer just go too cold. (My darkroom gets very cold... especially in New England winters!) I warmed up the developer, and adjusted the exposure time, so I have the copies I needed.

Am I right in thinking that LPD should really be maintained at about 68-70 degrees F (around 20 degrees C)? I was using a 1:3 dilution, maybe I should have tried a different dilution? How do different dilutions affect the tone in neutral papers? As an aside, I quite liked it with warm tone papers as well, an did not find it hard to get rich blacks. It looks like a good all purpose paper developer to keep on hand, but any thoughts, opinions, and ideas on how best to use it with both neutral and warm tone papers would be appreciated.

TIA

 

[jim appleyard]

I only used this dev once, so my input here is small. I found LPD to be a good all-purpose dev that lasted quite a while. I never got to play around with dilutions, so I can't help there.

I'm not sure whether LPD contains hydroquinone, but if it does it needs to kept above 55F. Q shuts down below that temp, as do most darkroom workers. I keep an old microwave ($5.00 at garage sales) in the darkroom just for heating up dev and water to make the next recipe.

I'm sure others will follow with more info on this dev. It's been around quite awhile and has a loyal following.

 

[jim appleyard]

Also try: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[Mongo]

Ethol LPD is about the only packaged developer that I use any more. I can't help with the temperature issue, although I've read that you can't use it when it's really cold. But just how cold, and how it compares to other developers (not many of which work well when truly cold) I can't say.

If you're using it at 1:3, then the developer should basically last forever...or at least through a printing session of any length that I can imagine. I use it 1:4 when I want neutral tones and either 1:9 or 1:14 for warm tones. At any of those dilutions, I've used it for many hours and lots of prints, and it just kept going. I noticed no change in the developer even at 1:14 and about 40 sheets of 8x10 paper...I would have expected to at least have to extend the development time a bit.

I won't say that LPD is better or worse than any of the other developers that I've used, except that it has two characteristics that I really appreciate. The first is that it seems to last forever in the trays, and the second is that it's easy to fine-tune the tone of your image by varying the dilution of the developer. For Azo I use either Neutol-WA or Michael Smith's amidol formula (depending on whether I'm playing around or making final prints), but for everything else I'm very happy with LPD.

My guess is that it was the temperature that was working against you. Is there any way you can set up a warm water bath for your trays? Even a "next sized" tray with warm water that you can replenish from time to time might help...I've used things like this in the past when I had to print in less than ideal conditions. (I generally keep my paper chemicals at 68F, which works well for me in my current darkroom/kitchen setup.)

Best of luck.
Dave

 

[Gregg Brekke]

Suzanne,

I use LPD 1:1 and am very pleased with 3 minute dev times. I have used it straight as recommended to see if the blacks are darker but haven't noticed anything significant. At 3 minutes with 1:3 and higher I do see a slight decrease in black density. My paper is Agfa MC Classic III Multigrade fiber.

This is great developer - with my standard 1:1 mix, 1/2 gallon (1/4 gallon stock, 1/4 gallon water) lasts about 100 prints before it turns deep brown and I feel the need to throw it out even though it is probably still good...

Best of luck,
Gregg Brekke

 

[Peter Schrager]

LPD

Suzanne-I have an immersion heating device made especially for photography and sold by Arkay. B+H should carry it. Since I use larger trays when really making prints just get an oversized one and lay the heater in it. You can adjust the temp too. At first I didn't want to use it but it really is safe and gives consistent results in winter. Do not put it in chemicals!
Peter

 

[L Gebhardt]

Keep in mind that LPD comes packed two ways. The liquid is actaully twice as concentrated as the powder, so a 1+4 from powder is the same as 1+8 from liquid. It would help if everyone included the source when talking about dillution.

 

[rhphoto]

I believe LPD is phenidone based. As such, my understanding is that if you were to do rigorous side by side comparisons with Dektol, Dektol would have better Dmax. And it would probably be slightly cooler in tone on cold tone papers. It's hard to beat the combination of Metol and hydroquinone (Dektol), but LPD does seem to have better tray life. I always found when using LPD that my prints had a slight mudiness in the deep shadows, and there was a tendency toward a purplish cast.

 

[SuzanneR]

Thanks, L! The things I learn here! I have the powder version.

One last quick question... as many have mentioned, the higher the dilution, the warmer the tone... is this for warm tone papers, or will it warm up a neutral/cool tone paper, too? Or will it just make it less contrasty?

Thanks for the ideas on keeping things warm! I used a larger tray of hot water to warm the developer up, but found it a bit cumbersome to keep the tray in there when I had a print in it. It's always a challenge to keep the darkroom warm in winter... but I'll figure something out!

 

[ann]

We have used this developer for many years ; the only time others are used is when I do a class that takes 15 different developers/and/or ratio and 5 to 10 papers and print one negative.

The higher dilution ratio warms up even neutral papers.

Aother developer that was interesting was Super Platnuim. at a 1:15 ratio Ilford's Cooltone paper ended up a light tan when ulsed with this developer.

 

[Gerald Koch]

Both Dektol and LPD contain hydroquinone. All developers containing hydroquinone will slow down significantly below 68F and will quit working below 55F. You will get better looking prints if you keep your developer around 72 - 75F, with better blacks and better contrast.

 

[SuzanneR]

Thanks, Ann and Gerold. I feel a little better armed with knowledge, now!!

 

[jvarsoke]

I've only ever used LPD, so have no real way to compare. But I do like it because the image comes up quick, and it lasts forever. I use 1:1 and have kept it in a half empty bottle for about 8 months, taking it out every other weekend to do small batches of contact sheets and a series of prints. It quickly turns coffee brown, but that is no indication that it's bad.

 

[Les McLean]

Suzanne use the powdered version of LPD and have had no problems in getting rich blacks with it, perhaps the temperature is the problem. There is a table of dilutions and how they afrect the paper colour on the packaging on the tin, at least on the last batch that I brought home from the US. I'm in Ireland at present but when I return home on Friday I'll post that table here.

 

[SuzanneR]

Suzanne use the powdered version of LPD and have had no problems in getting rich blacks with it, perhaps the temperature is the problem. There is a table of dilutions and how they afrect the paper colour on the packaging on the tin, at least on the last batch that I brought home from the US. I'm in Ireland at present but when I return home on Friday I'll post that table here.

Good idea, Les.

From the tin of the powdered version:


Warm tone Papers LPD Cold/Neutral
(Chloro-Bromide) Conc. (Fast Bromide)

Very light warm 1:4 Very light to warm silver

Warm 1:3 Light silver

Neutral warm tones 1:2 Neutral silver

very dark brown 1:1 or Cold to blue black
to brown black full strength

 

[SuzanneR]

Oops... the columns disapeared. The dilutions run down the middle, and the descriptions for each paper are on either side! Hope it's not too confusing!!

 

[donbga]

We have used this developer for many years ; the only time others are used is when I do a class that takes 15 different developers/and/or ratio and 5 to 10 papers and print one negative.

The higher dilution ratio warms up even neutral papers.

Aother developer that was interesting was Super Platnuim. at a 1:15 ratio Ilford's Cooltone paper ended up a light tan when ulsed with this developer.

I've found that the P-72 variant of D-72 closely matches the qualities of LPD. I also choose this formula because of my alergic reaction to metol. Mixing the developer from scratch also saves a lot of money.

If anyone is interested I'll post the formula which I originally got from David Vestal's book on black and white printing.

Don Bryant

 

[jim appleyard]

I've found that the P-72 variant of D-72 closely matches the qualities of LPD. I also choose this formula because of my alergic reaction to metol. Mixing the developer from scratch also saves a lot of money.

If anyone is interested I'll post the formula which I originally got from David Vestal's book on black and white printing.

Don Bryant

Yes, please do!

 

[photomc]

Suzanne, would be interested in hearing your thoughts comparing LPD to PF-130. IIRC you have also used 130 recently and the blacks were not as strong. Thanks as always.

 

[Les McLean]

This is the chart that I use when printing with LPD developer

WARM TONE PAPERS

Very light warm 1:4
Warm 1:3
Neutral warm browns 1:2
Very dark brown to brown black 1:1 or full strength


COLD/NEUTRAL PAPERS

Very light to warm silver 1:4
Light silver 1:3
Neutral silver 1:2
Cold to blue black 1:1 or full strength


My views on getting good rich blacks in my prints are that the paper grade is very important,for example when I'm after deep rich blacks I always use harder grades or if split grade printing ensure that I use more hard filtration than soft. If you do a test you will find that a grade 5 full black will be more crisp than a grade 2 black. I describe the 5 black as brittle and the 2 black as rounded.

Another tip that I would suggest you use is to add a small quantitiy of 10% solution of potasium carbonate to any print developer to help increase the depth of the black. In my experience Dektol has the edge over any other developer when it comes to producing deep rich blacks and if you look at the formula you will see that the amount of pot carbonate is significantly higher than all the other print developers.

 

[SuzanneR]

Suzanne, would be interested in hearing your thoughts comparing LPD to PF-130. IIRC you have also used 130 recently and the blacks were not as strong. Thanks as always.

I've been playing around with warm tone papers, and the PF130 is a lovely developer with the Ilford WT, and Agfa MC111. I didn't like it much with Berrger VCCB. (way too flat prints). I liked the midtones I got out of it, especially nice for rendering flesh tones for portraits. Doesn't turn the paper brown as such, but a subtle warm grey.

I think the LPD is a great as an all purpose developer, and can be used with a lot of different papers. (Convienient that you can use it on both cool and warm papers!) I haven't had the chance to really work with it at different dilutions just yet, and I would still like to find a subtle brown tone. With the holidays bearing down, I will be printing pretty much straight through for the next three weeks, so hopefully I'll find it soon!!

Depending on what I want from an image, I'll be keeping both developers on hand.

Thanks, Les... your chart is much easier to read than mine!!

 

[albada]

I get to revive a two-decade-old thread.

The P-72 paper developer is reported to behave similarly to LPD (long lasting and can change color via dilution). I found a posting with its formula here, and I quote it below.

The formula that I'm posting was taken from a listing in one of David Vestal's darkroom books and may not be an exact replacement chemically for Ethol LPD. I adopted it many years ago as my primary silver gelatin​

enlarging paper developer when it became difficult for me to purchase LPD. It is Phenidone based like LPD which is a plus for me since I am acutely sensitive to Metol and I'm unable to use developers like Dektol. Here is the formula:​

​

To make 4 liters of stock solution use:​

​

3 L Distilled water 50C - 125F​

180 g Sodium Sulfite​

50 g Hydroquinone​

270 g Sodium Carbonate​

2 g Phenidone​

7.5 g Potassium Bromide​

1 g Benzotriazole​

Add water to make 4 liters.​

​

Starting with 3L of H2O mix the chemicals in the order listed dissolving each chemical fully before adding the next.​

​

You can make a solution of Phenidone in isopropyl alcohol to help dissolve the Phenidone easier and to make adding 2g to the solution more accurate. The stock solution of Phenidone in isopropyl will not last long so there is no need to mix a large volume.​

​

I usually dilute the stock solution 1:3 with water for a warmish tone print. 1:1 for a little cooler tone. The developer is very long lasting in the tray and the stock solution stays stable much longer than Dektol. For best storage use an amber glass bottle. I can print all day and come back the next morning and add a small amount of dilute stock and get extended life to the developer already in the tray. This formula is inexpensive to make once the initial investment in the constituent chemicals is made. Of course different papers will give different results in tone and contrast. My normal development time is 3 minutes at room temperature with all papers I use such as Ilford Multigrade IV, Agfa Multi-contrast Classic, Oriental Seagull, and Cachet to name a few.​

​

You can also vary the concentration of Benzotriazole and Potassium Bromide to vary color, contrast and fog reduction but I rarely do this.​

​

Don Bryant​

I divided the numbers in the above posting by 4 to yield the following 1-liter formula:

0.8 L Distilled water 50C - 125F
45 g Sodium Sulfite
12.5 g Hydroquinone
67.5 g Sodium Carbonate
0.5 g Phenidone
1.9 g Potassium Bromide
0.25 g Benzotriazole
Add water to make 1 liter.

EDIT: I should mention that this formula is very close to ID-62, which is popular among home-mixers for good reason.

Mark

 

[Don_ih]

I should mention that this formula is very close to ID-62

It is practically identical to ID62:

Phenidone	ID62 0.5 g	P72 0.5 g
Sodium Sulphite (anh)	50 g	45 g
Hydroquinone	12 g	12.5 g
Sodium Carbonate (anh)	60 g	67.5 g
Potassium Bromide	2 g	1.9 g
Benzotriazole 1% soln	20 ml	25 ml
Water to	1 litre	1 litre

Once diluted, they essentially are identical.