Ethol LPD Recipe?

[haryanto]

Anybody know what's chemical in Ethol LPD contains? how it's compared to dektol or D72,

Thanks n Regards
Haryanto

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Well, the MSDS only lists Hydroquinone and S. Carbonate: http://www.digitaltruth.com/products/msds/Ethol_LPD_Powder_MSDS.pdf

But that only makes up 50-60% of the product, they aren't listing the remaining 40% - S. Sulfite, Ascorbic Acid?

 

[haryanto]

I often read about strong black when print with Ethol LPD, Brett Weston used this developer with Oriental Seagull, thanks Nicholas

 

[Roger Cole]

I've used it for years. It's my favorite print developer. But the commercial stuff is relatively cheap and readily available so all I really need to know is "open the can of powder and mix..."

Note that it's available as a powder to mix a stock with a standard dilution for neutral tones of 1+2, or as a liquid concentrate that's stronger and meant to dilute 1+4 for normal tones. The liquid is considerably more expensive even accounting for the higher dilution, but of course it's more convenient. Not THAT much more convenient though, depending on how much you value your time and how much you hate dissolving powder.

 

[haryanto]

I've used it for years. It's my favorite print developer. But the commercial stuff is relatively cheap and readily available so all I really need to know is "open the can of powder and mix..."

Note that it's available as a powder to mix a stock with a standard dilution for neutral tones of 1+2, or as a liquid concentrate that's stronger and meant to dilute 1+4 for normal tones. The liquid is considerably more expensive even accounting for the higher dilution, but of course it's more convenient. Not THAT much more convenient though, depending on how much you value your time and how much you hate dissolving powder.

I know it's quite cheap but import to my country is far n a bit costly, now in my hand i have metol hquinon, Ascorbic acid etc, I used to play with D72, 1+1 or 1+2 how it compared to LPD? maybe I can brew it before I start to seriously order to freestyle.

Thanks Roger

 

[Roger Cole]

I know it's quite cheap but import to my country is far n a bit costly, now in my hand i have metol hquinon, Ascorbic acid etc, I used to play with D72, 1+1 or 1+2 how it compared to LPD? maybe I can brew it before I start to seriously order to freestyle.

Thanks Roger

Now THAT I understand. But the fact it's affordable in many countries probably has contributed to it not being reverse engineered.

Mostly it's remarkable because of its long life. I printed a few sheets and poured the diluted working strength back in the bottle and tightened the lid. Used it again some four weeks later and it was perfect. This is working solution, not stock. Don't try that with Dektol.

But results, while very good, are nothing you won't get with standard developers in my experience.

 

[haryanto]

Thanks Roger really appreciate your info

regards
Haryanto

 

[Rick A]

I just checked in my Photo Lab Index, no formula, however it does state that there is no metol, it uses "phenidone" which is a registered trade name. Check out this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/404490-REG/Clayton_98_4710_Phenidone_1_Lb.html

 

[haryanto]

I just checked in my Photo Lab Index, no formula, however it does state that there is no metol, it uses "phenidone" which is a registered trade name. Check out this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/404490-REG/Clayton_98_4710_Phenidone_1_Lb.html

Thanks for the Info Rick

Regards
Haryanto

 

[Gerald C Koch]

LPD is a proprietary PQ developer, you won't find a published formula. However, you should be able to substitute any PQ print developer formula.

 

[haryanto]

LPD is a proprietary PQ developer, you won't find a published formula. However, you should be able to substitute any PQ print developer formula.

Do you know which PQ developer that similiar to LPD Gerald? which has strong black like LPD, thanks

 

[Ian Grant]

LPD is a proprietary PQ developer, you won't find a published formula. However, you should be able to substitute any PQ print developer formula.

That needs qualifying because PQ developers are warmer toned than their MQ equivalents. This initially caused problems when Ilford switched to using Phenidone for all its print developers in the 1950's. You need to use Benzotriazole instead of just bromide to get colder tones which Ilford do in ID-62

Ian

 

[haryanto]

That needs qualifying because PQ developers are warmer toned than their MQ equivalents. This initially caused problems when Ilford switched to using Phenidone for all its print developers in the 1950's. You need to use Benzotriazole instead of just bromide to get colder tones which Ilford do in ID-62

Ian

I use D72 brewed + 1gr bromide +20ml (1% Benzotriazole) per liter D72 Ian, do you have experienced about black in D72 vs LPD?

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

All developers produce the same maximum-black if you fully develop the paper.

Adding carbonate to a developer increases its activity and so paper reaches full development sooner. This can give the impression that it gives deeper blacks, but you will get the same blacks with Dektol, or any other print developer, if you leave the print in for long enough. S. Carbonate will also extend developer life: back in the old days if the print developer futzed out one added a spoonful of S. Carbonate and kept on printing. Carbonate will also shift the color of the blacks towards blue, which can give the impression of a higher DMax.

To get the same 'deep blacks' experience, try diluting Dektol 1:1 instead of 1:2 and adding 100ml/l or so of 10% S. Carbonate. You will come up with something that will be quite similar in action to LPD.

Too much carbonate can lead to highlight veiling - if this becomes a problem then add 50 ml/l of 10% P. Bromide. Bromide will shift the paper tone to warm - how much depends on the paper.

Minor White recommended the addition of both S. Carbide and P. Bromide to paper developer as a matter of course.

 

[Ian Grant]

All developers produce the same maximum-black if you fully develop the paper.

This is incorrect, warmtone developers don't produce the same maximum black and if you over develop you lose the warmth.

Ian

 

[haryanto]

All developers produce the same maximum-black if you fully develop the paper.

Adding carbonate to a developer increases its activity and so paper reaches full development sooner. This can give the impression that it gives deeper blacks, but you will get the same blacks with Dektol, or any other print developer, if you leave the print in for long enough. S. Carbonate will also extend developer life: back in the old days if the print developer futzed out one added a spoonful of S. Carbonate and kept on printing. Carbonate will also shift the color of the blacks towards blue, which can give the impression of a higher DMax.

To get the same 'deep blacks' experience, try diluting Dektol 1:1 instead of 1:2 and adding 100ml/l or so of 10% S. Carbonate. You will come up with something that will be quite similar in action to LPD.

Too much carbonate can lead to highlight veiling - if this becomes a problem then add 50 ml/l of 10% P. Bromide. Bromide will shift the paper tone to warm, often even in the presence of lots of Carbonate, IIRC.

Minor White recommended the addition of both S. Carbide and P. Bromide to paper developer as a matter of course.

Interesting info Nicholas, I believe develop for completion can produce good black, just curious if the LPD could be stronger than others (ie. higher dmax)

 

[haryanto]

This is incorrect, warmtone developers don't produce the same maximum black and if you over develop you lose the warmth.

Ian

what about neutral or cooltone developer Ian? I prefer my prints has a cooltone than warm

 

[Ian Grant]

I use D72 brewed + 1gr bromide +20ml (1% Benzotriazole) per liter D72 Ian, do you have experienced about black in D72 vs LPD?

LPD isn't available in the UK, but I did do exhaustive testing of various printdevelopers while working as a photo-chemi8st in the 70's and 80's.

Don't add extra Bromide to D72 just the Benzotriazole.

what about neutral or cooltone developer Ian? I prefer my prints has a cooltone than warm

They have a higher Dmax than warmtone devs.

Ian

 

[haryanto]

LPD isn't available in the UK, but I did do exhaustive testing of various printdevelopers while working as a photo-chemi8st in the 70's and 80's.

Don't add extra Bromide to D72 just the Benzotriazole.

Ian

Thanks Ian, I'll try it

 

[Rick A]

Ilford ID-62

warm water(125f or 52c) .. 750 ml
sodium sulfite(anhydrous).. 50 grams
hydroquinone................... 12 grams
sodium carbonate(desicated)60 grams
phenidone..........................0.5 grams
potassium bromide...............2 grams
benzotriazole......................0.2 grams
addcool water to make 1 liter

 

[haryanto]

Ilford ID-62

warm water(125f or 52c) .. 750 ml
sodium sulfite(anhydrous).. 50 grams
hydroquinone................... 12 grams
sodium carbonate(desicated)60 grams
phenidone..........................0.5 grams
potassium bromide...............2 grams
benzotriazole......................0.2 grams
addcool water to make 1 liter

Great, like a version of D72 but a PQ, thanks Rick

 

[Rick A]

Sorry, I should have included the dilutions for this formula.

For use with contact print papers: dilute 1:1 and develope 45-60 seconds
For use with enlarging papers: dilute 1:3 and develope 1-1/2-2 minutes
For tray development of films and plates: dilute 1:3 and develope 2-4 minutes
For tank development of film: dilute 1:7 and develope 4-8 minutes

I also found two other Ilford PQ formulas, a replenisher and a warm tone developer that I'll post later this evening.

 

[Ian Grant]

Ilford ID-62

warm water(125f or 52c) .. 750 ml
sodium sulfite(anhydrous).. 50 grams
hydroquinone................... 12 grams
sodium carbonate(desicated)60 grams
phenidone..........................0.5 grams
potassium bromide...............2 grams
benzotriazole......................0.2 grams
addcool water to make 1 liter

Cut the Benzotriazole and up the Bromide to 4.5g, plus 2g extra carbonate and you have a superb warmtone developer ID-78. (Note in the US the Lab Index got this wrong as only having 0.4g Bromide a mistake perpetuated in all US books for years).

Ian

 

[Roger Cole]

I didn't know LPD wasn't available in the UK. Argh, but Bromophen is very nice - lasts more like Dektol than LPD though (which is to say, once diluted it doesn't', at least that's how I remember it.)

It isn't hard in my experience to get blacks comparable to LPD. They are very nice but not special, just a good developer not a miracle. The miraculousness is in the keeping qualities even once diluted.

Years ago I tried a print developer recommended by a friend and made by the Acufine people, called Posifine I think, formerly Printofine. It also lasted a long time at working strength, maybe longer than LPD, but was warmer and maybe a touch softer. I liked the look of LPD better so went back to it and have stayed with it ever since. Not sure if that one is still available but I don't see it anywhere.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Do you know which PQ developer that similiar to LPD Gerald? which has strong black like LPD, thanks

I have always gotten the best blacks from an MQ developer. The nice thing about this group of developers is that you can adjust the image tone with benzotriazole. Without it the tone is slightly warm and with it you can get a neutral black or even a cold black.

I ran across the following formula a couple of weeks ago. This might be the right place to post it.

MCM Winchester

Metol 4.25g
Sodium sulphite (anhydrous) 50g
Hydroquinone 12.5g
Sodium carbonate (anhydrous) 100g
Potassium bromide 6.25g
Water to 1 litre

To use, dilute 1:3.

If you use sodium carbonate in monohydrate form, use 118.5g instead.

The OP had this to say about the developer.

"This gives very brilliant, clean-looking prints on baryta papers. Light to mid greys appear to have extra separation, whites stay very bright. Compared to standard developers such as Ilford MG, the blacks seem to have an extra depth which goes right into the paper." The emphasis is mine.

Here is a formula for a long lasting phenidone developer.

Phenidone - Ascorbate Universal Developer

Sodium tripolyphosphate 4.0 g
Sodium sulfite 16.0 g
Sodium carbonate, monohydrate 36.0 g
Sodium ascorbate 20.0 g
Phenidone 0.8 g
Potassium bromide 2.0 g
Benzotriazole, 0.2% 50.0 ml
Acetic acid, 28% 10.0 ml
Water to make 1.0 l

For use dilute 1+1 for papers and 1+7 for films. One liter will process 75 8x10 prints.