Essential Additions to an ETRSi Outfit?

[cooltouch]

I've had my ETRSi now for about four years I guess. I've been slowly adding gear to the outfit. Currently I have the 40mm, 75mm, and 150mm lenses, a couple of 120 backs, a 220 back, a non-metered prism, an AEII prism, and a sport finder prism. It has a Speed Grip E, which makes hand-holding it a piece of cake, plus I have the SCA 300 module for it that hooks up to my Mezt CT-4 flash, so I've got TTL flash photography when I want/need it. So it's a decent little outfit as it stands, but I'm interested in adding more to it, and here's where I'm thinking that a bit of perspective can be useful.

The sort of photography I do with this outfit is mostly oudoors -- rural and urban -- but I also use it for occasional portrait work. I would like to be able to do some macro work with this setup. I know that Bronica made a 100mm f/4 1:1 macro for the camera, but Bronica also made a variety of extension tubes, and a bellows. I don't know if it exists, but it would be handy if it did: how about a reverse adapter for, say, the 40mm wide angle? What direction would you take, or have you taken, if you were into doing some macro work with your ETR-system?

Also, I'm interested in acquiring a telephoto longer than my 150mm. I know about the 100-220 and the rather pricey 125-250 zooms, but I was wondering if it might not be better to use a prime or primes instead. I see where Bronica has made a 200mm and a 250mm, both of which seem to be quite reasonably priced right now, so I'm wondering which is the better or if I should consider something else. Of course I wonder about the 500mm as well, but it will probably not be as useful as a shorter focal length, I'm thinking. And I note that Bronica made 2x teleconverters for their lenses, so this might be an alternative.

So whatever experience you might have with respect to these uses I've mentioned, I'd appreciate reading if you'd care to share. Thanks.

 

[andrew.roos]

I believe the 100/4 macros only go to 1:4 without extension tubes. The 105/4.5 PE goes to 1:1 (don't confuse it with the 105/3.5 MC though). The 105/4.5 takes 67mm filters instead of the system's standard 62mm filters, but I doubt this would be a problem for macro work.

 

[wiltw]

A reverse adapter to use leaf shutter lenses reverse mounted (not a reverse-screwed-into-another-lens) does not exist because then there is no controllable shutter in the ETRS, as the lens shutter requires BOTH a mechanical and an electrical linkage to operate.

The 105mm PE offers 1:1 magnification without any extension tubes or bellows, the PE105 macro is a true flat field lens. Minimum Focus Distance 13.8 inches (0.35m)

E-42 extension on 105mm E lens only permits closeups within the range of 0.40 - 0.56x . The 100mm f/4 E 'macro' does not get 1:1, it gets only to .25x (1:4) focusing only to 1.8'.

Bronica also made a 180mm PE, which frankly is nicer for portraiture than the 150mm which needs the E-12 extension to get tight headshots. And then there is a 30mm, a 50mm, 200mm and a 250mm which you neglected to mention, as well as the 45-90mm zoom

 

[cooltouch]

Actually, I didn't neglect to mention the 200mm and 250mm. In fact, I mentioned them specifically, requesting comments about them. I didn't include the 50mm or the 45-90mm since I have a 40mm and a 75mm. I decided on the 40mm over the 50mm for the same reason that I use a 24mm much more than a 28mm in my 35mm photography. I just prefer the extra reach. I gave the 45-90 some serious thought, but when I came across a 40mm for a good price, I just decided to go with it instead, figuring that the 75 would be good enough for the longer end of the range.

Thanks for the clarification on the macro lenses. I was confusing the 105 and the 100 as it turns out.

Obviously I'm still thinking in 35mm terms when I didn't even remember that one can't reverse mount the ETR lenses. But I reckon I could do the lens stacking trick, reverse-screwing it onto another lens. I have an old book by John Shaw showing some pretty impressive results he got from doing that. Still, I think I'd rather get the 105 macro, to be honest.

Anybody here have any experience with the bellows Bronica made for the ETR system? What would be the best lens to use with them -- just the 75mm maybe? Something longer?

 

[wiltw]

If you use the bellows, I suggest a shorter FL optic so that the bellows (which provides up to 155mm extension) to get the greatest magnification! You get

• 1.3x - 3.9x for bellows with 40mm mounted.
• 0.71x - 2.18x for bellows with 75mm mounted

Bellows effectively takes over where the E42 tube ends...

Extension tubes are better as they are less delicate than a bellows, but achieve lower magnification...

on 75mm lens

• E14 give 0.18x- 0.36x
• E28 gives 0.36x - 0.54x
• E42 gives 0.54x - 0.72x

 

[hsandler]

I had the E42 tube. It worked well with the 150, ok with the 75, but was nearly unusable with the 50. Too soft and mushy. With all lenses, it was dim and hard to focus precisely. Now I have an SQ-A kit and opted to get a macro lens instead (110mm f4.5 1:1). The macro lens is much more enjoyable to use, and easier to focus and compose with.

 

[cooltouch]

Yeah, after some thought on this matter -- and considering what the bellows typically sell for when they show up on eBay, I think the smart move would be to get the 105 macro for my ETRSi. Having 1:1 on a 6x4.5 negative will be pretty spectacular.

You know, when I bought my ETRSi, I was actually looking for a good deal on a square format MF outfit, when I ran across the ETRSi priced at a really good price. Otherwise, I probably would have bought an SQAi system. Years ago, I owned an Bronica ECTL and built up a nice system for that camera. It was a joy to use and the shots I got with it were just spectacular. But in a moment of weakness, I sold the outfit so I could buy a new computer. That was over 20 years ago. Six months later, the computer was probably worth half what I paid for it, but ten years later, the ECTL would have still been worth about what I sold it for, if not more.

 

[dynachrome]

I have the 100/4 macro for the ETR system as well as the early ETR bellows and some extension tubes. For a tight portrait with any of the 150s I need to use either a short extension tube or a close-up lens. For this reason I prefer using the 105/3.5 or the 100 macro. Eventually I'd like to get the 135 PE for its closer focusing.

 

[paul ron]

The one n cheapest addition and the most used in my kit is the focusing lever. I got one on every lens i own n it makes focusing a pleasure with just two fingers.


Dead Link Removed.

 

[cooltouch]

I'll have to keep that in mind. But you know, when I focus, that's all I use anyway is two fingers -- well actually a finger and a thumb. So I guess it's the extension that gives you the advantage?

 

[andrew.roos]

I have the 100/4 macro for the ETR system as well as the early ETR bellows and some extension tubes. For a tight portrait with any of the 150s I need to use either a short extension tube or a close-up lens. For this reason I prefer using the 105/3.5 or the 100 macro. Eventually I'd like to get the 135 PE for its closer focusing.

I have the 135 PE and it's a lovely lens - probably my favourite out of what I have (40/50/75/135 PEs). However it's still not ideal for a tight headshot, both because even at minimum distance it's still not really tight. But it's fantastic for looser portraits and nature detail shots. As wiltw mentioned, the 180 PE is probably the best for tight portraits as it also goes to 1m but with a narrower FOV. I haven't used one so can't comment on the IQ, but I've never been disappointed with a PE lens.

 

[wiltw]

I had the E42 tube. It worked well with the 150, ok with the 75, but was nearly unusable with the 50. Too soft and mushy. With all lenses, it was dim and hard to focus precisely. Now I have an SQ-A kit and opted to get a macro lens instead (110mm f4.5 1:1). The macro lens is much more enjoyable to use, and easier to focus and compose with.

In terms of 'light loss' (caused by spreading the available photons more, the extension tube is identical to the bellow is identical to the Bronica macro lens...if ALL are used for 1:1 magnification, all have identical 'light loss' when compared to focus at 3'. All three methods move the optics farther from the focal plane, all have -2EV less light striking the film because the image is being spread over a 4x larger area at the focal plane and the film is capturing only what falls within the 55mm x 42mm frame size of the ETRSi.

Yeah, after some thought on this matter -- and considering what the bellows typically sell for when they show up on eBay, I think the smart move would be to get the 105 macro for my ETRSi. Having 1:1 on a 6x4.5 negative will be pretty spectacular.

You know, when I bought my ETRSi, I was actually looking for a good deal on a square format MF outfit, when I ran across the ETRSi priced at a really good price. Otherwise, I probably would have bought an SQAi system. Years ago, I owned an Bronica ECTL and built up a nice system for that camera. It was a joy to use and the shots I got with it were just spectacular. But in a moment of weakness, I sold the outfit so I could buy a new computer. That was over 20 years ago. Six months later, the computer was probably worth half what I paid for it, but ten years later, the ECTL would have still been worth about what I sold it for, if not more.

Sadly, the world's interest in digital has, in combination with Tamron's discontinuance of the Bronica line a number of years after they acquired the business, the ETRSi value has plummetted. If you consult new pricing for the Bronica gear lineup in 2000 vs. current market for used gear, you are lucky to see 10% of the new price if trying to sell a used kit today $3000 of stuff for $300)! And even if you purchased on both the used market and NYC camera store prices for the gear you purchased new, you can still get $2000 of stuff for $300).

Good luck in the search for the 105mm PE...I can tell you that even when brand new you did not widely see them advertised in the stores' lists of new gear with more popular Bronica E lenses.

 

[paul ron]

I'll have to keep that in mind. But you know, when I focus, that's all I use anyway is two fingers -- well actually a finger and a thumb. So I guess it's the extension that gives you the advantage?

Because of that extension you can support the camera from below as you focus instead of a free hand.

 

[NJH]

Good point, that makes a lot of sense if using a prism finder. Might try it as I love the focus tabs on Leica lenses.

 

[cooltouch]

Because of that extension you can support the camera from below as you focus instead of a free hand.

OK, I see. But I use the Speed Grip E on my ETRSi, which is where all the support is coming from in my case. When used with a prism finder, which is what I do, it's very reminiscent of using a 35mm camera with a motor drive attached.

 

[paul ron]

OK, I see. But I use the Speed Grip E on my ETRSi, which is where all the support is coming from in my case. When used with a prism finder, which is what I do, it's very reminiscent of using a 35mm camera with a motor drive attached.

But with the E grip/firing hand as the only support, its not very stable n you'll notice after focusing, you'll naturally put your focusing hand below anyway causing an interuption while framing. The lever allows you to fine tune as you frame n fire for selective focusing on the go.

I dont sell these things, im just recommending it as an aid i find very usefull everyday in my many years of shooting an etrs.... And used m on my other cameras as well.

Btw, levers are available for most any camera brand from hassy to kowas.

 

[Johnkpap]

Hi I have had a Etrs/Etrsi outfit for some time.

The lenses that would be the most useful to would be the 250mm lens, with a E 11 spacer you can also close focus for really tight head shots. The other lens that is great is the 50mm 2.8 it is a lot faster than the 40mm and a great choice for landscapes and group shots.

Another very cool item that does not cost a lot is a motor drive....just stay away from the early model (the big chunky one) I have used mine with a small Metz hotshot flash outdoors as a fill in flash for Wedding and Event work. It also speeds up film changes, you just clip on the next back and keep shooting.

Also do not get too hung up on the MC/PE lens debate, I have used both and the only real diference I have found
is that some PE lenses have half stops.

I hope this helps

Johnkpap

 

[cooltouch]

Paul, noted. I guess I should get one of those levers and try it out. I just hefted my ETRSi outfit again just now to remind myself of its weight, and yeah, I can't really support all the weight easily from just the handle. I end up having to cup my left had, and rest the body in my palm. But then it's a one or two finger touch to adjust the lens's focus. I'm thinking that, if I can position the lever right, I might be able to use the ball of my thumb or one fingertip to handle fine-tuning focusing chores.

John, thanks for your feedback. I took a look at the 250mm on eBay. A shame it's so slow. With an extension, it'll be even slower. As for the 50mm, yeah, I know it's a stop faster, but I wouldn't call it "a lot faster." I'll probably eventually add one to my outfit, but I wanted to get a wide that would offer the most bang for the buck, as it were, if I had only one wide.

I've wondered about the motor drive(s) for the ETR-series. But when I was first reading up on them, I kept running across comments from folks who claimed that the Speed Grip was just as useful, lighter, and cheaper. So I went with it instead. And I gotta admit that the double-throw crank is still quite fast and it is comfortable. I was taking a look just now on eBay at the motor drives they have there. Now I see what the difference between the early and the late is. The early one has the batteries in the base and the later one has the batteries in the grip, yes? The later one certainly does look compact -- almost as small as the Speed Grip. Something to put on the list as a future acquisition. Are there any other issues with the early one besides size/weight?

I have a few decent small flashes that I can use with the Speed Grip, which also has a hot shoe, a few medium ones, and a few big gun shoe mounts as well, if I don't feel like dragging around the Metz 45 CT-4.

I had also read that there wasn't really a dime's worth of difference between the MC and PE lenses, so I haven't really paid attention to it, as a result. My 75 came with the camera as part of the original kit. It's an E II -- where does that fall in the scheme of things? The 40 and 150 are MC, though. They do just fine, and I'm happy with them.

 

[dynachrome]

Johnkpap, do you mean the E14 extension tube?

 

[Johnkpap]

Yes.. Sorry the E 14 extension tube is the one to use with the 250mm lens. The extension tube does not affect the
Speed of the lens just lets you close focus with it, most studio flash work is shot at F8 so the fact the lens is slow will not matter.

motor drives, - the early one for the ETR, also had sinc with the body issues, the new ones worth great

When you are working with MF any lens that has a higher F stop than F4 is considered fast.

Glad to help

johnkpap

 

[cooltouch]

Hey John, do you happen to know what the range of focus will be with the E14 on the 250mm? My experience with shorter lenses and an extension is it drastically shortens the range of focus, like from maybe 1 inch to 15 inches. Because it's a 250mm, I'm assuming that there is a more useful range with that optic.

 

[Johnkpap]

Yes there is a more useful range with a 250 & a E14, you can get a very tight head/shoulders shot with it.
You need to use a tripod or at mono pod as it is not the easy to Hand hold, having a hand grip or motor drive attached does help a bit as you are not winding the crank while focusing.

There is properly some data sheet out there, but at the price you can get a lens and spacer for....just buy them and have a go, the MC 250 is selling for less than $90 and the E14 for even less$$ add a newer motor drive and you have a serious close focus portrait kit.

Johnkpap

 

[hsandler]

data for e-14 and 250mm. Not in terms of distance, but area covered. Looks good for doing headshots, but not true 1:1 macro.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/charts/comp_bronicamed_2.html