Erotic Photography

A
Thread starter arigram
Start date May 28, 2005

arigram

Member

May 28, 2005

#1

Last night on TV they were playing the french movie Sade, about the Marquis de Sade played by Daniel Auteuil and got me thinking. I went to my book case and took down all the books on the subject of eroticism I have, including the ones of the Marquis himself, Octavio Paz, Plato, modern greek poets, chinese/persian/indian guide books, etc. I looked at my photographic bookcase and my aquisitions of the subject where only a couple books with nudes and Helmut Newton.
Yet, that's exactly what I am -not- looking for.
Is there real, genuine erotic photography, that's not glossy mainstream porn (boring), fashion glam pseudo-erotic (a fashion model with leather corset for example), or just plain nudes (a naked human is wonderful but needs more than plain "all in your face" to be erotic)?
Something that could be as subtle as a look or as direct as BDSM, yet retain an artistic value that's beyond pleasing the casual horniness?
(how else could I put it? )

medform-norm

Member

May 28, 2005

#2

arigram said:
Last night on TV they were playing the french movie Sade, about the Marquis de Sade played by Daniel Auteuil and got me thinking. I went to my book case and took down all the books on the subject of eroticism I have, including the ones of the Marquis himself, Octavio Paz, Plato, modern greek poets, chinese/persian/indian guide books, etc. I looked at my photographic bookcase and my aquisitions of the subject where only a couple books with nudes and Helmut Newton.
Yet, that's exactly what I am -not- looking for.
Is there real, genuine erotic photography, that's not glossy mainstream porn (boring), fashion glam pseudo-erotic (a fashion model with leather corset for example), or just plain nudes (a naked human is wonderful but needs more than plain "all in your face" to be erotic)?
Something that could be as subtle as a look or as direct as BDSM, yet retain an artistic value that's beyond pleasing the casual horniness?
(how else could I put it? )

Ever take a look at the work of Araki? Japanese photographer of ehmm, well, do a Google and find out what he takes pictures of.

OP

OP

arigram

Member

May 28, 2005

#3

Very interesting Medform, thank you.
The Japanese do certainly have a quite extreme notion of eroticism that the Marquis would have felt quite at home.
How about also something more subtle?

Ed Sukach

Member

May 28, 2005

#4

I'd suggest Ralph Gibson's Nudes.

Not "glossy' and not "porn".

modafoto

Subscriber

May 28, 2005

#5

I have been doing some erotic photography for some now. Primarily for the fetish and BDSM scene is Denmark. I have among others worked for SMil (National society for S/M) and Fetish Inc (arranging fetish parties).

My favourites are

Eric Kroll. An icon
Chas Ray Krider. Amazing 50'es style fetish photography all shot in motelish surroundings.
Ellen Von Unwerth. REVENGE is a GREAT series of shots. All in the neat B&W style.

Dead Link Removed
I am not 100% proud of them, but I like some of them a lot.

OP

OP

arigram

Member

May 28, 2005

#6

Ah, Morten, no wonder you have not posted these photos in APUG.
You quite scared me now, I don't think I will ever address you any more...
Do you have anything in BW, with Rodinal by any chance?

modafoto

Subscriber

May 28, 2005

#7

arigram said:
Ah, Morten, no wonder you have not posted these photos in APUG.
You quite scared me now, I don't think I will ever address you any more...
Do you have anything in BW, with Rodinal by any chance?

I warned you! Please address me again

I have nothing ready for posting now, but I am going out to shoot some out-door S/M stuff soon in B&W.

blansky

Member

May 28, 2005

#8

Define erotic.

Once I read a quote that "erotic is using a feather and porn was using the whole chicken."

One persons erotic is anothers porn. I have probably 50-100 books on art nudes to erotocism to whatever and it's all personal interpretation.

To some, Sally Manns stuff is erotic.

MIchael

rbarker

Member

May 28, 2005

#9

blansky said:
. . . Once I read a quote that "erotic is using a feather and porn was using the whole chicken."

So, would the fetish crowd use the whole chicken in a latex suit?

I agree that the definition of "erotic" is highly subjective, but there seems to be some alignment - largely along IQ lines, it seems. Those who lean toward the more blatant also seem to be concerned about catching something from those Euro ticks.

Ari - you might look at some of Janloup Sieff's (sp?) work.

blansky

Member

May 28, 2005

#10

rbarker said:
So, would the fetish crowd use the whole chicken in a latex suit?

I would think that they could, but the breasts would have a cut out as well as it's pecker.

Michael

janvanhove

Member

May 29, 2005

#11

Since someone mentioned Jean-Loup Sieff, just wanted to mention in passing that there is a magazine out as we speak for "Reporters without borders", with images from Sieff (there was one a while ago with images from Newton, also...)

I've been working with eroticism and trying to see what can be shown without going into porn, but the definition of where art nude ends, and where eroticism is and what is porn is highly liked to one's sensibilities, and what is seen as an artistic nude by some can be seen as subversive porn by others...

I guess it's one of those subjects where people have to agree to disagree and respect each others views...

PJ

OP

OP

arigram

Member

May 29, 2005

#12

modafoto said:
I warned you! Please address me again

How can I not?

"You're my lover
undercover
you're my secret passion
and I have no other.
You're Number One,
my Number One..."

blansky said:
Define erotic.

I dare not define erotic, nor did I ask a specific view of it. I asked to be shown different interpretations of erotisism that escape the common Playboy/Penthouse/Hustler/Max definition of cloned big boobed blondes in medical positions, Soft/Hard Porn magazines that depict a comic view of copulation like in a nature documentary, of mainstream models posing in leather outfits in codified poses pretending to look sexual and simple nudes that are better suited as a document of anatomy or form.

I ask for honest, real, deep (no pun intended) visual investigation of eroticism. For me eroticism as I have stated before is in the eyes, a simple look and care little for the more aggressive depictions, but they also interest me somewhat.

The interesting thing about photography is that because of its documentarisic quallities it can depict very reallistically a naked body or a sexual act. Yet, the problem lies when eroticism is not merely a reallistic snapshot of the sexual moment, but the capture of the feeling of it, where non visual arts excel at such as poetry and music. Even in painting and sculpture, the depiction of a naked body is not enough to reach eroticism, but the interpretation of the artist is what captures the real erotic emotion.

Thus, when speaking of art, it goes beyond a global dictionaristic explanation of what the word means (after all, since its greek, I pretty much comprehend it), but what interests is the individual interpretation by an artist.

Porn is when the erotic illustrator wants to please his/her public, eroticism when the creator pleases himself. True erotic creation is not unlike masturbation, or the physical creation of an erotic fantasy, the satisfaction of a sexual desire in visual terms.
Porn is shallow, the fast food of sexual illustration, the sexual act done just to get rid of the craving. Eroticism is slow motion, a hint, a light caress that contains all the power of violent multiple orgasms.

Or so I believe.

I ask for guidance in photographic eroticism because of the aforementioned reasons and the feel of looking for a drop of water inside an ocean.

Ed Sukach

Member

May 29, 2005

#13

For really *fine* erotic literature, I might suggest the "Song of Solomon" in the King James Bible.

Ole

Moderator

Moderator

May 29, 2005

#14

There's always Dead Link Removed. Some of it is definitely erotic, some of it humoristic, some of it just plain weird, but all of it is exellent!

modafoto

Subscriber

May 29, 2005

#15

Man Ray

eatfrog

Member

May 29, 2005

#16

Ole said:
There's always Dead Link Removed. Some of it is definitely erotic, some of it humoristic, some of it just plain weird, but all of it is exellent!

Saudek is a crazy, crazy man.
I don't find the pictures erotic, humoristic and weird though.

removed account4

Subscriber

May 29, 2005

#17

modafoto said:
Man Ray

you said it!

i think it is what isn't there ( implied ) not what is there

Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2005

JohnArs

Subscriber

May 29, 2005

#18

Hi

Test:http://www.sylvie-blum.de/content/main.html
or do a search on Günter Blum and Jean Loup Sieff is also a good one he is a mater in lighting!

blansky

Member

May 29, 2005

#19

arigram said:
How can I not?

"You're my lover
undercover
you're my secret passion
and I have no other.
You're Number One,
my Number One..."

I dare not define erotic, nor did I ask a specific view of it. I asked to be shown different interpretations of erotisism that escape the common Playboy/Penthouse/Hustler/Max definition of cloned big boobed blondes in medical positions, Soft/Hard Porn magazines that depict a comic view of copulation like in a nature documentary, of mainstream models posing in leather outfits in codified poses pretending to look sexual and simple nudes that are better suited as a document of anatomy or form.

I ask for honest, real, deep (no pun intended) visual investigation of eroticism. For me eroticism as I have stated before is in the eyes, a simple look and care little for the more aggressive depictions, but they also interest me somewhat.

The interesting thing about photography is that because of its documentarisic quallities it can depict very reallistically a naked body or a sexual act. Yet, the problem lies when eroticism is not merely a reallistic snapshot of the sexual moment, but the capture of the feeling of it, where non visual arts excel at such as poetry and music. Even in painting and sculpture, the depiction of a naked body is not enough to reach eroticism, but the interpretation of the artist is what captures the real erotic emotion.

Thus, when speaking of art, it goes beyond a global dictionaristic explanation of what the word means (after all, since its greek, I pretty much comprehend it), but what interests is the individual interpretation by an artist.

Porn is when the erotic illustrator wants to please his/her public, eroticism when the creator pleases himself. True erotic creation is not unlike masturbation, or the physical creation of an erotic fantasy, the satisfaction of a sexual desire in visual terms.
Porn is shallow, the fast food of sexual illustration, the sexual act done just to get rid of the craving. Eroticism is slow motion, a hint, a light caress that contains all the power of violent multiple orgasms.

Or so I believe.

I ask for guidance in photographic eroticism because of the aforementioned reasons and the feel of looking for a drop of water inside an ocean.

Stop it. You're making me horny.

With your obvious sensitivity and sensuality you must have chicks hanging all over you. I was almost ready to buy a plane ticket to Crete. Give me a minute while I slow down my heart and I'll try to think of some photographers and books for you.

Michael

JohnArs

Subscriber

May 29, 2005

#20

I forgott : Bettina Reims book Chambre close!

SuzanneR

Moderator

Moderator

May 29, 2005

#21

Probably more sensual than erotic, but Edward Weston.

mark

Member

May 29, 2005

#22

arigram said:
The interesting thing about photography is that because of its documentarisic quallities it can depict very reallistically a naked body or a sexual act. Yet, the problem lies when eroticism is not merely a reallistic snapshot of the sexual moment, but the capture of the feeling of it, where non visual arts excel at such as poetry and music. Even in painting and sculpture, the depiction of a naked body is not enough to reach eroticism, but the interpretation of the artist is what captures the real erotic emotion.

.

SOunds like you have a good idea of what you are looking for. "erotic is personal. I like the second definition given on Dictionary .com. It sums up erotic for me

Tending to arouse sexual desire.

What sparks that desire for you? For me it is the entire package-clothing, voice, look, body language, scent and touch. I do not find the nude human form to be erotic. depending on how the image is presented, the feelings will range from total indifference to appreciation, to humor. I may be completely wrong but eroticism seems to appeal to a higher level of feeling and emotion and requires all of the senses. I have never seen an erotic image, nor do I think I ever will. I feel a two dimensional representation of a person cannot be erotic.

JMO

blansky

Member

May 29, 2005

#23

These are some of the books I have on the subject of Erotica. They contain photographs that I consider erotic as well as photos that are less so and some that maybe porno. But thats what makes a horse race.

Mammoth Book of Illustrated Erotica
Private Viewing
Venus ---------Michelle Olney
Love Lust and Desire-------Michelle Olney
Dahmane
Photosex-----Steinberg
Know Your Number------Selby
MAsterpieces of Erotic Photography
Women A secret portfolio
Sensual Images
NUdes
Cyclops----ALbert Watson
Exposure---Bruno Bisang
Erotique----Rod Ashford
Seeing Red----Schatz
CLassic Farber Nudes---Robert Farber
World of Eros
Helmet Newton---name it, any book
In Camera ----Christian Vogt
Any David Hamilton

Have fun,

Michael

Bill Mitchell

Member

May 29, 2005

#24

I never realized until now that Weston's "Civilian defense" was a fetish picture. I always presumed that it was just very sophmoric satire.

SuzanneR

Moderator

Moderator

May 29, 2005

#25

I'm not familiar with "civilian defense", but I was thinking about his peppers, and shells, and mushrooms, and less of Charis.

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