Epson V850 Pro 120 Negative Holder

SodaAnt · Jul 31, 2023

I'm attempting to scan some 6x7 negatives on my new V850 and the 120 negative holder seems to be designed in a very odd way. It's impossible to get the film to lie flat on the glass because there are plastic wedges that appear to be there to hold the glass in place, but interfere with the negative sitting flat. Closing the holder with the negative sitting centered one the glass results in the negative being visibly bowed in the middle--this cannot be Epson's intention as it won't result in a scan that's focused across the full width of the negative. Am I doing something wrong, or is the 120 negative holder misdesigned?

Another issue is the length of the negative channel. I cut my negatives in groups of three, and the length of the channel is too short to avoid cutting off the image area of the third negative.

What are my options here? Is this a known issue? Operator error? If this is a design issue, are there better holders available from Epson or third parties? After paying $1300 for a scanner, this is extremely frustrating!

VoodooXT · Aug 4, 2023

I ended up buying the 120 film holders from the V700 and use those on my V850. There's no anti-Newton ring glass but it can sorta hold 3 6x7 frames (the third frame will run off past the scannable area so you'd have move it over once the other 2 frames are scanned).

Bronson Dugnutt · Aug 4, 2023

I've had a V800 for many years and the stock holders are generally pretty crummy. The 35mm holder is ok but 120 and 4x5 have the plastic rails. The 120 holder is simply a poor design with regard to being able to fit whole frames of 6x7 or larger. The 120 holder for the V600 has a longer area for film and is 'glassless' but is as equally horrific to properly load.

Here's a couple excerpts from the V800 Manual:

Place the medium format film in the holder with the shiny side face up so that images and any wording on the film strips are not backward. Make sure the film is placed between the film guide tabs and resting on top of the film lock bevels as shown. Caution: Place the film on top of the film lock bevels. Forcing the film beneath the beveled edges will damage the film.

Note: The film holder cover may not hold the outer edges of the film completely flat against the clear plate; this is normal and will not affect the quality of the scanned image.

Regarding the 4x5 holder:

Note: You may need to trim the edges of the film so that it sits properly in the film holder without bending or warping. Do not cover any of the small holes in the holder.

SodaAnt · Aug 4, 2023

Trim the edges of 4x5 film? Is that a bad joke on Epson’s part?

Bronson Dugnutt · Aug 4, 2023

Stuff like 4x5 FP4 fits fine but just like the 120 holder you have to 'float' the edges of the film on the plastic rails (and keep them there) while closing the holder. Oddly cut x-ray or weird stuff like literal 4x5" ortho litho sheets might have an odd fit. Regardless, the 4x5 holder is less maddening than 120 because there is no film curl to deal with.

Short of fluid mounting, I would also recommend trying to scan directly from the platen with a glass sheet overlaying the transparencies. It is way more hassle (and you lose Digital ICE) but you can scan an entire roll of 120 in one go.

SodaAnt · Aug 4, 2023

Bronson Dugnutt said:
I would also recommend trying to scan directly from the platen with a glass sheet overlaying the transparencies.

How do you avoid Newton's rings when doing it that way?

Bronson Dugnutt · Aug 4, 2023

You don't. Or perhaps try glass with sufficient anti-newton-ness. Or maybe the same type of translucent plastic used in the holders themselves.

Fluid mounting is similar but much more labor intensive and solves newton ring problem. Look out for air bubbles though.

Alan Edward Klein · Aug 4, 2023

Would keeping the emulsion side down eliminate the rings?

Dwight Anderson · Aug 4, 2023

The 850 holder is pretty fussy. You have to make sure the entire length of the film is between the little upright tabs next to the side wedges. Then if you still have some film curvature, try turning the strip over. I don't have any 6x7 cameras, so I haven't run into the length problem.

Sirius Glass · Aug 4, 2023

Bronson Dugnutt said:
I've had a V800 for many years and the stock holders are generally pretty crummy. The 35mm holder is ok but 120 and 4x5 have the plastic rails. The 120 holder is simply a poor design with regard to being able to fit whole frames of 6x7 or larger. The 120 holder for the V600 has a longer area for film and is 'glassless' but is as equally horrific to properly load.

Here's a couple excerpts from the V800 Manual:

Regarding the 4x5 holder:

If "The 120 holder is simply a poor design" then the holders would be better than they are. I am very unimpressed with 120 holders, even for just 6x6.

EHM2 · Aug 6, 2023

I really hesitate to weigh in on this topic, but a man on Stockholmviews.com demonstrated how he cut the tabs off of the 850 holder with a sharp knife and a ruler. I did this with my 850 4x5 holder and the film I have tried lies quite flat without any special manouvering. I have not tried it on many films but it worked for me. All you need is an xacto blade and some courage.

SodaAnt · Aug 17, 2023

Has anyone ordered the 120 film holder for the Epson V850 from an outfit called betterscanning.com? Their holder seems ideal for my needs, but their order page says they'll contact me via email to complete my order. I've submitted two orders and have never heard back from them (I've checked my spam folder).

Are these guys still in business? Or perhaps it's a one-man-band company and the owner is on summer vacation?

Custom Film Holder for Epson V700 V750 V750-M

MattKing · Aug 17, 2023

Doug Fisher is Betterscanning, and in recent years many have had difficulty reaching him.

JWMster · Sep 6, 2023

I'm trying to reach Doug as well. Have sent him an order... we'll see if he sends the invoice. Fingers crossed. Will let you know. Good to know this is a general problem rather than specific... and having been around this barn once or twice before, his site has been updated and has a fairly recent date. Like I said, fingers crossed and will let you know.

blee1996 · Sep 6, 2023

I have an Epson V700, which should be compatible to your V850 Pro in terms of negative carriers.

For 3 frames of 6x7, I hacked the Better Scanning carrier by widening it about 1/4" from each end (marked by red rectangle, using a file).

I actually bought a V850 120 carrier for its purported better flatness with the ANR glass. But I found it a bit fiddly, and only scans one stripe at a time. So I reverted back to V700's original 120 carrier, as long as the negatives are not overtly curly.

I only use the Better Scanning 120 carrier for 3 frames of 6x7 or 6x12 and 6x17 stripes.

About 6 months ago I contacted Better Scanning to buy another ANR glass, but never gotten any reply. I guess they are mostly defunct. I hope you can find 3D printed alternatives from the Internet.

For 6x7, it is indeed ideal to cut into 3+3+2+2 which will fit into one page of PrintFile 120-4UB archive sleeve. But if it is so difficult to find good negative carriers for 3 6x7 frames, you can always cut into 2 frame stripes and store them in two pages of 120-4UB. Negative sleeves are dirt cheap compared to negative carriers.

Alan Edward Klein · Sep 6, 2023

blee1996 said:
I have an Epson V700, which should be compatible to your V850 Pro in terms of negative carriers.

For 3 frames of 6x7, I hacked the Better Scanning carrier by widening it about 1/4" from each end (marked by red rectangle, using a file).

View attachment 348370

I actually bought a V850 120 carrier for its purported better flatness with the ANR glass. But I found it a bit fiddly, and only scans one stripe at a time. So I reverted back to V700's original 120 carrier, as long as the negatives are not overtly curly.

I only use the Better Scanning 120 carrier for 3 frames of 6x7 or 6x12 and 6x17 stripes.

About 6 months ago I contacted Better Scanning to buy another ANR glass, but never gotten any reply. I guess they are mostly defunct. I hope you can find 3D printed alternatives from the Internet.

For 6x7, it is indeed ideal to cut into 3+3+2+2 which will fit into one page of PrintFile 120-4UB archive sleeve. But if it is so difficult to find good negative carriers for 3 6x7 frames, you can always cut into 2 frame stripes and store them in two pages of 120-4UB. Negative sleeves are dirt cheap compared to negative carriers.

My V600 120 film holder allows three frames. No glass but my film is flat from the labs who develop my film. I have them send it to me in PRintfiles. Unfortunately, my V850's doesn't hold three photos. I can only put in two requiring that I cut all my threes into 2+1s. Then the Printfile has all these little onesies and twosies to file and use. What a pain. Instead of improving their products, Epson blew it with the V700 and V800 series.

Also, their 4x5 holders on the V850 often isn't big enough for the film and you have to cut it down a bit.

SodaAnt · Sep 6, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
Also, their 4x5 holders on the V850 often isn't big enough for the film and you have to cut it down a bit.

That's insane! What were they thinking?

blee1996 · Sep 6, 2023

It seems some entrepreneur already made copies of the Epson 120 negative carriers. I'm not affiliated and have not used them.

Amazon link

Alan Edward Klein · Sep 6, 2023

blee1996 said:
It seems some entrepreneur already made copies of the Epson 120 negative carriers. I'm not affiliated and have not used them.

Amazon link

Has anyone here used them? I;ve got an Epson V850.

SodaAnt · Sep 6, 2023

blee1996 said:
It seems some entrepreneur already made copies of the Epson 120 negative carriers. I'm not affiliated and have not used them.

Did they improve on Epson's poor design, or are they a direct copy?

blee1996 · Sep 6, 2023

SodaAnt said:
Did they improve on Epson's poor design, or are they a direct copy?

From what I can tell, 100% direct copy. They even made a V850 120 carrier without the ANR glass.

SodaAnt · Sep 6, 2023

blee1996 said:
From what I can tell, 100% direct copy. They even made a V850 120 carrier without the ANR glass.

Then I'll pass.

Too bad betterscanning.com appears to be defunct (they have not replied to my orders and queries in two months) because their 120 holder looks like a better design than Epson's.

Sirius Glass · Sep 6, 2023

blee1996 said:
From what I can tell, 100% direct copy. They even made a V850 120 carrier without the ANR glass.

SodaAnt said:
Then I'll pass.

Too bad betterscanning.com appears to be defunct (they have not replied to my orders and queries in two months) because their 120 holder looks like a better design than Epson's.

I will pass too. Besides Espon somehow send me not one but two complete sets of negative and slide holders. More I do not need. Better is what I would like.

SodaAnt · Sep 6, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
Besides Espon somehow send me not one but two complete sets of negative and slide holders.

That's standard for the Epson V850 Pro (and probably some of the earlier models as well).

JWMster · Sep 6, 2023

What I'm wondering is how hard would it really be to replace defunct Betterscanning products with some small levelers added to an Epson compatible holder, put some ANR glass in it and wet mount the negative to the bottom as appears to be the "best quality" approach to running our V850's?

Epson V850 Pro 120 Negative Holder

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