Epson P900 Nightmare -- any suggestions?

[Rolleiflexible]

I print negatives with an Epson SC P900 on Fixxons transparency film. I am having endless problems with the P900's paper path. I'm on my FOURTH printer.

Printer 1: I bought the first P900 from Amazon in early 2022. It arrived damaged in transit. Though it ran, it would not feed paper through the front or rear paper feeders. Epson sent a refurbished replacement.

Printer 2: The replacement also would not feed paper or film cleanly from the rear feeder. The leading edge of the paper or film would catch on something on the front feeder tray, inside the printer, causing the paper or film to roll into a tube under the print head. But I found a workaround: I could push against the front feeder tray, and that give the paper enough clearance to feed through the printer. I got a bit over a year of use from the machine.

Last month, the workaround became unreliable. And when I started trying to print on 17-inch media, the print head would catch on the leading corners and dogear them.

Printer 3: I called Epson a few weeks ago. Epson said the machine was out of warranty, but agreed to replace it with another refurbished unit, with the stern admonition that this was the end of Epson's responsibility. The new (third) printer did move the paper and film from the rear feeder into the paper path. But with this printer, the paper or film caught on something else about 3.5 inches into the print, causing the middle of the paper to buckle and, ultimately, a head strike and jam.

Printer 4: To Epson's credit, it responded to the new development by shippping a fourth printer, also refurbished. It arrived this morning. It prints plain paper fine. But it feeds Fixxons oddly into the paper path, crumpling the trailing edge as it feeds the leading edge into the machine. When it does feed film cleanly into the path, it does the same thing as the last printer -- about 3.5 inches in, the leading edge catches, causing the film to buckle and cause a head strike.

I turned on the thick paper option for the third and fourth printers, even though Fixxons is only 5 mils thick. It did not change the results.

I know a lot of group members are using this printer with Fixxons or other transparency media. What can I do at this point? Has anyone else had these problems?

 

[MurrayMinchin]

I print negatives with an Epson SC P900 on Fixxons transparency film. I am having endless problems with the P900's paper path. I'm on my FOURTH printer.

Printer 1: I bought the first P900 from Amazon in early 2022. It arrived damaged in transit. Though it ran, it would not feed paper through the front or rear paper feeders. Epson sent a refurbished replacement.

Printer 2: The replacement also would not feed paper or film cleanly from the rear feeder. The leading edge of the paper or film would catch on something on the front feeder tray, inside the printer, causing the paper or film to roll into a tube under the print head. But I found a workaround: I could push against the front feeder tray, and that give the paper enough clearance to feed through the printer. I got a bit over a year of use from the machine.

Last month, the workaround became unreliable. And when I started trying to print on 17-inch media, the print head would catch on the leading corners and dogear them.

Printer 3: I called Epson a few weeks ago. Epson said the machine was out of warranty, but agreed to replace it with another refurbished unit, with the stern admonition that this was the end of Epson's responsibility. The new (third) printer did move the paper and film from the rear feeder into the paper path. But with this printer, the paper or film caught on something else about 3.5 inches into the print, causing the middle of the paper to buckle and, ultimately, a head strike and jam.

Printer 4: To Epson's credit, it responded to the new development by shippping a fourth printer, also refurbished. It arrived this morning. It prints plain paper fine. But it feeds Fixxons oddly into the paper path, crumpling the trailing edge as it feeds the leading edge into the machine. When it does feed film cleanly into the path, it does the same thing as the last printer -- about 3.5 inches in, the leading edge catches, causing the film to buckle and cause a head strike.

I turned on the thick paper option for the third and fourth printers, even though Fixxons is only 5 mils thick. It did not change the results.

I know a lot of group members are using this printer with Fixxons or other transparency media. What can I do at this point? Has anyone else had these problems?

Don't know if this will help. It's the first idea I came up with and hasn't let me down...yet. Then again, I haven't been printing digital negatives for very long!

Used masking tape on the top & bottom (backside) of a piece of regular letter writing paper, making sure about 1/8 of an inch extended over the edge.

The digital negative film gets placed over the front of the paper (both are the same size) and the masking tape gets rolled over so that it holds the film in place.

In the photo I offset the film material so it would be easier to see.

I feed the usual way, from the back/top feed tray.

I have a P600

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Seem to remember reading that these printers use an optical sensor to detect & align the leading edge of papers, so think the tape helps in that regard.

 

[koraks]

Yeah, my first suggestion would also be to tape the Fixxons to a carrier and load it that way. I'd personally start with a rigid medium like museum board and use the appropriate feeding path for rigid media. I'm not familiar specifically with the P900, only with its ancient predecessor the 3880, but I assume it has a similar provision for handling rigid media.

I've also found that inkjet printers just aren't made to accommodate transparent media. It sort of works, but the number of failure modes is really surprising. The only thing I can say is, once you've found a solution and a combination of printer, ink and transparency medium that works reliably, hang on to it, treat it with tender love and care, and make it last as long as you can.

Someone should really come up with a contemporary alternative to imagesetters.

 

[nmp]

Should have insisted on a new one for #1 considering it was damaged in transit. Looks like Epson is just recycling other people's returns as refurbishments. They don't really solve the problem but placate the customer for the time being.

Anyway, that does sound like a nightmare. As I understand the physical quality of this new printers (700/900) is not as good and sturdy as their predecessors.

Feeding a transparency is always a crap shoot in any printer though. I learned that long time ago with my HP B9180 printer. As a result, I started printing on a carrier sheet made of baryta inkjet paper 13"x13" with the transparency taped at various spots in the center and fed the sandwich from the front tray designed for fine art media. It's was nuisance and it slowed you down, but better that than trying to retrieve stuck plastic sheet inside the printer and worse, the head strikes that are bound to occur becasue of the curvy transparencies.

After that printer died, I bought the Epson P400. Similar problem with feeding transparencies. Sometimes it worked and sometime it didn't. Using the carrier sheet did the job in this case too. Here, I employed a thicker 4-ply mat board of the same size and used the front feed path to print. Another advantage of front feed is that it disengages the star wheels in the path so no "pizza" wheels show up on the negatives. Lately, I have been prining through QTR which does not have the option to use the front feed so - yet another improvisation - for that I use the top sheet feeder - only now the negative is taped on a thin photo paper. I also removed some of the star wheel assemblies from the middle where the transparency sits to get rid of the pizza wheels. So far it has worked without any mishaps...

:Niranjan.

 

[mshchem]

I would love to print negatives, I need to try with my Canon printers first.

THIS DOESN'T HELP BUT FUNNY VIDEO BY FRUSTRATED PROFESSIONAL

 

[mshchem]

Should have insisted on a new one for #1 considering it was damaged in transit. Looks like Epson is just recycling other people's returns as refurbishments. They don't really solve the problem but placate the customer for the time being.

Anyway, that does sound like a nightmare. As I understand the physical quality of this new printers (700/900) is not as good and sturdy as their predecessors.

Feeding a transparency is always a crap shoot in any printer though. I learned that long time ago with my HP B9180 printer. As a result, I started printing on a carrier sheet made of baryta inkjet paper 13"x13" with the transparency taped at various spots in the center and fed the sandwich from the front tray designed for fine art media. It's was nuisance and it slowed you down, but better that than trying to retrieve stuck plastic sheet inside the printer and worse, the head strikes that are bound to occur becasue of the curvy transparencies.

After that printer died, I bought the Epson P400. Similar problem with feeding transparencies. Sometimes it worked and sometime it didn't. Using the carrier sheet did the job in this case too. Here, I employed a thicker 4-ply mat board of the same size and used the front feed path to print. Another advantage of front feed is that it disengages the star wheels in the path so no "pizza" wheels show up on the negatives. Lately, I have been prining through QTR which does not have the option to use the front feed so - yet another improvisation - for that I use the top sheet feeder - only now the negative is taped on a thin photo paper. I also removed some of the star wheel assemblies from the middle where the transparency sits to get rid of the pizza wheels. So far it has worked without any mishaps...

:Niranjan.

Are smaller transparencies easier to feed?

 

[nmp]

Are smaller transparencies easier to feed?

Never tried smaller than standard letter size - 8 1/2" x 11".

 

[mshchem]

I've wanted to try 6 1/2 × 8 1/2. I find smaller is easier all through the process. Kinda obvious I suppose

 

[nmp]

I've wanted to try 6 1/2 × 8 1/2. I find smaller is easier all through the process. Kinda obvious I suppose

There are 2 problems here - one is that the printer has trouble "seeing" the transparency so it goes crazy looking for it. Decides there is nothing there, asks for paper or spits it out and then fakes a paper jam. That problem is not going to be any less if the transparency is smaller. The other problem is there is a marked upwards curvature in the sheet, some makes (Fixxons) more than the others (Pictorico) and even though it is held down at two points in the path a few inches apart, enough of it is present at the 2 edges perpendicular to the head direction. This is a potential source of trouble with head stirkes. Perhaps this problem might be alleviated somewhat in a smaller transparency as it may have smaller curvature.

:Niranjan.

P.S. If you use some sort of carrier approach, you can print even smaller - I routinely print step wedges that are only 1"x6" or so.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

Thanks to all of you who replied. My first few attempts to use these suggestions have not been successful but I am going to explore more today.

I am having a hard time understanding how "curl" could be the culprit. These printers are designed to use rolled media, albeit fed through a separate path from the rear. Rolled media has a much more pronounced upward curl than a sheet of transparency film! So if my Fixxons is catching on the top of the flat feed tray after it has passed the print head, then how in the world do these printers manage to print from rolls of paper?

 

[nmp]

Thanks to all of you who replied. My first few attempts to use these suggestions have not been successful but I am going to explore more today.

I am having a hard time understanding how "curl" could be the culprit. These printers are designed to use rolled media, albeit fed through a separate path from the rear. Rolled media has a much more pronounced upward curl than a sheet of transparency film! So if my Fixxons is catching on the top of the flat feed tray after it has passed the print head, then how in the world do these printers manage to print from rolls of paper?

Hi, Sanders:

I don't know about other models, but at least in P400, they particularly recommend that the roll paper is fed "over-hand" with curl down (are all rolls rolled with the coated side on the outside - in my roll of inkjet canvas, that is true) - which might explain why it would work there. For transparencies, one does not have a choice because it's coated side that is curved up so it has to fed with curl facing up. Because of this, as soon as it goes past the back rubber rollers, the leading edge does not stay down so it can be caught by the front star-wheels. So instead of coming out of the printer like it's supposed to be, it just starts rolling onto itself within the printer. I am just guessing here since on my P400, I never had this type of rolling inside the printer. This thory can be tested by trying to feed the Fixxons emulsion side down, print a dot or something and see it works better.

:Niranjan.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

Update:

Printer 4 went back to Epson for another refurbished unit. Printer 5 was also defective -- more paper path misalignment issues, plus a phantom paper jam error that disabled the printer. Epson is shipping out Printer 6, also a refurb, this afternoon.

I have to believe that Epson receives defective printers; runs a standard bench test that does not check paper path alignment issues; and then reships returned units that passed the test as "refurbished" printers. I have nothing but praise for Epson's telephone support lines, which are mostly call centers in the Philippines. But I fear that I am caught in a revolving door so long as Epson keep shipping "refurbished" units to me.

 

[mshchem]

Update:

Printer 4 went back to Epson for another refurbished unit. Printer 5 was also defective -- more paper path misalignment issues, plus a phantom paper jam error that disabled the printer. Epson is shipping out Printer 6, also a refurb, this afternoon.

I have to believe that Epson receives defective printers; runs a standard bench test that does not check paper path alignment issues; and then reships returned units that passed the test as "refurbished" printers. I have nothing but praise for Epson's telephone support lines, which are mostly call centers in the Philippines. But I fear that I am caught in a revolving door so long as Epson keep shipping "refurbished" units to me.

Something tells me that Epson won't run out of refurbished units anytime soon. What a mess.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I've been privy to some Epson nightmares over the years (which is why I won't ever use their printers), but this is brutal. On the bright side, at least you haven't thrown a massive amount of money at parts.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

Something tells me that Epson won't run out of refurbished units anytime soon. What a mess.

So: It turns out that Epson listened. They said they would ship me a refurbished unit, but that they would run tests to make sure to ship one with a paper path was free of defects.

Friday and Monday passed -- no printer.

This morning, FedEx brings me a box -- a NEW printer, not a refurbished unit. No explanation for the delay or the upgrade. My guess: They found that all the refurbished units they tested showed various paper path issues, and decided to put me out of my misery and ship a new printer.

And it does appear to work! It just now printed an 8.5x11 inch negative on Fixxons without incident. That's just one print, and maybe I just jinxed everything by saying it out loud. But I am going to bed tonight content that I got to print at least one negative, and that maybe I get to do it again in the morning.

 

[tnp651]

So: It turns out that Epson listened. They said they would ship me a refurbished unit, but that they would run tests to make sure to ship one with a paper path was free of defects.

Friday and Monday passed -- no printer.

This morning, FedEx brings me a box -- a NEW printer, not a refurbished unit. No explanation for the delay or the upgrade. My guess: They found that all the refurbished units they tested showed various paper path issues, and decided to put me out of my misery and ship a new printer.

And it does appear to work! It just now printed an 8.5x11 inch negative on Fixxons without incident. That's just one print, and maybe I just jinxed everything by saying it out loud. But I am going to bed tonight content that I got to print at least one negative, and that maybe I get to do it again in the morning.

Sanders, I'm glad you finally have a printer that works. I had a similar problem with a new P700 but the replacement is working fine.

If the printer doesn't "see" OHP film, I wonder if a swipe of felt-tip marker along the front edge would solve the problem without changing the thickness?

Tom

 

[Rolleiflexible]

Tom, I am sorry to hear you had problems too. To Epson's great credit, they did everything to get me a working printer -- I came away impressed by Epson's willingness to fix my problem. (But profoundly unimpressed by its quality control with "refurbished" products.) My new P900 "sees" OHP just fine -- it works like a champ.

 

[jeffreyg]

I have a 3880 and have always been able to print on Pictorico 8.5x11 and 13x19 with no problems. I set the paper type as luster if that’s any help.

 

[zuluz]

I've been monitoring this thread with interest. I've been thinking about upgrading my printer specifically for digital negatives, and almost unanimously been hearing Epson is the way to go, and as a result thinking about getting a P900. Horror stories like this makes me wonder though. Given all this, what is your advice? Should I wait? Look for some other model?

 

[Rolleiflexible]

I've been monitoring this thread with interest. I've been thinking about upgrading my printer specifically for digital negatives, and almost unanimously been hearing Epson is the way to go, and as a result thinking about getting a P900. Horror stories like this makes me wonder though. Given all this, what is your advice? Should I wait? Look for some other model?

Stick with Epson. I suspect that most Epson printers will be fine. If you do have problems, raise them quickly. The P900 is a wide-carriage printer, and Epson has a dedicated commercial support line for them that is well-staffed by knowledgeable and sympathetic operators. I have nothing but good things to say about them. If you do end up with a problematic machine, they will drop-ship a replacement overnight to you.

The problem, as I have found, is that the replacements are "refurbished" machines that may well have the same problem. I am guessing that bad machines are rare, but that the Epson refurbs may just recycle them out to other end users without fixing the problems. I also suspect the paper path in the P900 has very low tolerances and may be jarred out of alignment through shipping.

Despite my problems with the replacements, I love the printer. It is easily controlled with QuadToneRIP. It does not suffer the printhead clogs that dogged earlier Epson printers. When a head does clog, the printer unclogs itself in a few minutes. It's a good reliable machine.

 

[Caroline Waterman]

Stick with Epson. I suspect that most Epson printers will be fine. If you do have problems, raise them quickly. The P900 is a wide-carriage printer, and Epson has a dedicated commercial support line for them that is well-staffed by knowledgeable and sympathetic operators. I have nothing but good things to say about them. If you do end up with a problematic machine, they will drop-ship a replacement overnight to you.

The problem, as I have found, is that the replacements are "refurbished" machines that may well have the same problem. I am guessing that bad machines are rare, but that the Epson refurbs may just recycle them out to other end users without fixing the problems. I also suspect the paper path in the P900 has very low tolerances and may be jarred out of alignment through shipping.

Despite my problems with the replacements, I love the printer. It is easily controlled with QuadToneRIP. It does not suffer the printhead clogs that dogged earlier Epson printers. When a head does clog, the printer unclogs itself in a few minutes. It's a good reliable machine.

Hi, I just bought the p900 as a replacement for my p800 which suddenly started printing pizza wheels on all of my negatives. Looking at these new negatives it looks like the pizza wheel marks are there which is really frustrating!! There does not seem to be a way of changing the platen gap on this or change the drying time on the print head pass. Also the fixxons will not front load. Do you have any advice for me , right now this seems like a giant waste of money!

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Hi, I just bought the p900 as a replacement for my p800 which suddenly started printing pizza wheels on all of my negatives. Looking at these new negatives it looks like the pizza wheel marks are there which is really frustrating!! There does not seem to be a way of changing the platen gap on this or change the drying time on the print head pass. Also the fixxons will not front load. Do you have any advice for me , right now this seems like a giant waste of money!

Hi there...this works for me:

I tape my negative material (like Fixxons) onto a sheet of plain paper of the same size, and feed it through the vertical back feed tray with the printer paper setting on Presentation Matte. Haven't made anything bigger than 8.5x11

Might be worth a try?

 

[Rolleiflexible]

Hi, I just bought the p900 as a replacement for my p800 which suddenly started printing pizza wheels on all of my negatives. Looking at these new negatives it looks like the pizza wheel marks are there which is really frustrating!! There does not seem to be a way of changing the platen gap on this or change the drying time on the print head pass. Also the fixxons will not front load. Do you have any advice for me , right now this seems like a giant waste of money!

Caroline, I am a couple of hours west of you -- if you come to the Asheville area, I can walk you through my experiences with the P900.

I've never had pizza wheel problems, so I cannot speak to them. I print no smaller than 8.5x11-inches, and up to 17x22-inches. I've not tried to print on sheets smaller than 8x10 so I cannot say whether smaller sizes cause problems.

As for front-loading Fixxons, I have had no problem feeding Fixxons through the regular top/rear loader. I set the media in the printer to plain paper. If the paper path is properly calibrated, it will handle Fixxons that way without complaint. If it does not, then you have a misaligned paper path, and should contact Epson for repair or replacement.

You should not need to adjust platen gap with Fixxons. But for very thick media, there is toggle buried in the general printer settlings that will allow you to increase the gap for thicker media.

 

[LaniD]

Hi, I just bought the p900 as a replacement for my p800 which suddenly started printing pizza wheels on all of my negatives. Looking at these new negatives it looks like the pizza wheel marks are there which is really frustrating!! There does not seem to be a way of changing the platen gap on this or change the drying time on the print head pass. Also the fixxons will not front load. Do you have any advice for me , right now this seems like a giant waste of money!

Caroline did you get your pizza wheels marks to go away and if so how? I have a pretty lengthy thread posted nov 29 with the same problem.