Enlarging negatives - for duping, etc

[FL at CC]

I'm wanting to finally try enlarging my 4x5 and Hasselblad negs to larger 8x10 as I'm intending to do hand masking, etc for creative purposes. I do know that ortho was a good option for this process, though I'm still stumped on what the best overall process is. I've tried to find a kind of 'step-by-step' process though haven't really found this. Heard of people using ortho, lith and even x-ray films for the task. Can anyone chime in for a beginner in this process - i.e for suitable film selection, developers, timing, etc? Kindly note the outcome will be for straight ahead black and white printing/enlarging - not alt process.

Say hi and would love to hear your workflows!!

Frank

 

[Rick A]

Well, it takes a fair bit of experimenting to get exposures and developing where you are satisfied, so here's a head start. I use X-ray film to make enlarged negatives, and PMK developer. First, decide if you want to contact print your inter positives then enlarge for the negative or enlarge the inter positive then contact print the negative. It's cheaper to contact print first then enlarge, but I sometimes use the enlarged positives for silk screen printing. Exposure times are very short so using a lens with a shutter on your light source would be helpful. Handling X ray film under dark red safe light makes life easy, but keep it to a minimum. Experiment away (and keep good notes).

 

[FL at CC]

Well, it takes a fair bit of experimenting to get exposures and developing where you are satisfied, so here's a head start. I use X-ray film to make enlarged negatives, and PMK developer. First, decide if you want to contact print your inter positives then enlarge for the negative or enlarge the inter positive then contact print the negative. It's cheaper to contact print first then enlarge, but I sometimes use the enlarged positives for silk screen printing. Exposure times are very short so using a lens with a shutter on your light source would be helpful. Handling X ray film under dark red safe light makes life easy, but keep it to a minimum. Experiment away (and keep good notes).

Thanks Rick! The tip about choice of contact print or enlarge to the interpositive is a very great point. As you’ve suggested x ray film with PMK Pyro, can you advise which x ray film and dilutions and timing for the dev? Just so I can have a starting point (good news is I have PMK!)

 

[Rick A]

I use PMK only because that's what I use for everything. I think any film developer should work, but shy away from paper developer as they cause increased contrast. I've been using some old HRT green sensitive rated at iso 50and tray develop by inspection.
Here's a link to just about anything you might want to know about using X ray film and development.

Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

I was doing some film/developer testing today, and I thought some of you might enjoy a comparison between Standard camera film and Xray film shot in a camera. The Fomapan 200 shot was on 5x7, exposed at an ISO of 100 and developed for 4.5 minutes in Xtol straight in deep tank. The X-ray shot...

www.largeformatphotography.info

 

[jeffreyg]

Frank
I have used dental x-ray duplicating film for many years along with x-ray developer and fixer. I have used the enlarged negatives for platinum/palladium printing with excellent results. The film is very slow but you handle it as doing a paper print. Since it is a reversal film you do the opposite when burning and dodging. (less exposure = darker negative - lighter print and more exposure = lighter negative and darker print). Make a graduated test print as you would with paper. It has good contrast especially for Pt/Pd printing and does not add grain different from the original film. I suggest cutting some of the sheets just to experiment and get the hang of it to save costs. I have only used it to make contact printed positives so I can't comment on use for an inter negative. same red safelight as for film.

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[koraks]

Xray film is very usable, but not very linear, at least not unless you process it specifically for it and avoid the toe and shoulder of its curve. The remaining center section is very steep and still not necessarily very linear but YMMV. At least it's cheap, easily available and can be processed under appropriate (wavelength & intensity) red light. It's very good for alt. processes evidently because it so easily builds density, but this is not necessarily an advantage if silver gelatin prints are intended.

If a faithful copy of the original is needed, I'd look at more linear, lower gamma films such as TMAX100 or if it needs to be cheap, Fomapan 200. If it's Ok that the curve is distorted a bit in the process, I'd certainly give xray a try.

Personally I'd steer clear of the double-sided stuff; I find it's more trouble than it's worth. A good single-sided stock like Ektascan BR/A (if it's still being made) or one of the other mammography films (these are usually single-sided with an anti-halation backing) can be useful for these kinds of experiments.

 

[Lachlan Young]

I'm wanting to finally try enlarging my 4x5 and Hasselblad negs to larger 8x10 as I'm intending to do hand masking, etc for creative purposes. I do know that ortho was a good option for this process, though I'm still stumped on what the best overall process is. I've tried to find a kind of 'step-by-step' process though haven't really found this. Heard of people using ortho, lith and even x-ray films for the task. Can anyone chime in for a beginner in this process - i.e for suitable film selection, developers, timing, etc? Kindly note the outcome will be for straight ahead black and white printing/enlarging - not alt process.

Say hi and would love to hear your workflows!!

Frank

Start here (you'll need to register with archive.org to 'borrow' the book). Pages 123-126 will answer your questions in terms of procedures. Work on the basis that Super-XX was not some mystery magic film (despite various people turning the colour of residual dyes insisting it was - even in the face of Kodak's own sensitometric curves etc), but simply Kodak's main pre-Tmax general purpose sheet film - ie most general purpose sheet films can be used in its place. Ilford Ortho plus can be used in place of Kodak Commercial - and is what you should really focus on working with initially (and possibly Bergger Print Film) because it can be used under suitable safelights & you do not need colour sensitivity for your needs. Learn what it does in increasingly aggressive developers (ie film, 'universal', high contrast - in that order) & how you can use that to achieve your aims. Avoid X-ray film and avoid various badly thought out staining developers (ie all of them). Litho film is just going to cause you pain - you aren't trying to make screened halftones here. The only 'debate' should be whether it is better to make a contact positive & enlarge that to make your neg - or to make an enlarged positive and contact that.

It is not difficult to try the process & see how you get on with it - and down the line, learning some (very) basic sensitometry to get your aim densities about right while avoiding the Zone System will help you routinely land close enough (getting close enough to zero-in at final print is what matters, not wasting thousands of hours on badly done pseudo-testing over false notions of precision) - the process is extremely flexible and eminently controllable - if you do not let yourself get tripped up by the rabbit holes being furiously dug in your path by the silver-bullet pushers.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I have often done this kind of thing. Ortho-LITHO films are a sheer pain in the butt for this kind of work. I'd bite the bullet and just buy TMax or FP4 and go the double-sheet way. You can save some money by using fine-grain 4x5 Tmax to generate precision emulsion to emulsion contact inter-positives first, then enlarge those onto 8x10 FP4 final printing negs. Having the right kind of gear is important, including a lens suitable for optimal 2-4 X enlargements from MF and 4x5 to 8x10.

The inter-positive should be slightly overexposed but a tad under-developed, for lower contrast. Then the contrast is boosted developing the final printing interneg itself. So it helps to use films that are not only stiff and dimensionally stable for each step, but with a relatively long straight line characteristic curve. I prefer certain dilutions of HC-110 for this kind of application, but you could hypothetically develop your SECOND sheet of film, the 8x10 printing neg itself, in a staining pyro if you wish. I wouldn't recommend pyro for the prior inter-positive.

With a little practice, this two-sheet method becomes highly predictable, and wastes very little film. With ortho litho, even though it's way cheaper per box, your prolonged treatment expenses in the insane asylum will drastically increase your overall expenditure. Some people seem to like funky-looking prints with horrible development unevenness; not me.

It really helps to have a pin-registered contact printing frame and punch, especially is you need registered secondary masks too. Likewise, doing dye or smudge pencil work on a registered sheet of frosted mylar spares your printing master itself from that kind of treatment, and allows an easy redo of the alterations if necessary.