End of road for MF/LF...

awty · Feb 8, 2020

Just imagine what you could do using a scanned 8x10 negative.

jtk · Feb 8, 2020

eddie said:
Correct. I don't choose to use MF/LF because of superiority. I do so because it fits my vision, and the relationship I want to have with my work.

Don't need to argue with your personal preferences. Giga and related software are killing MF/LF, which is obvious when comparing prices and popularity.

I loved 4X5 Ektachrome, from E3-E6 but most labs that process it have vanished and they did funky work as they died.

jtk · Feb 8, 2020

awty said:
Just imagine what you could do using a scanned 8x10 negative.

Others have been doing that for years. How many 8X10 cameras do we shoot?

jtk · Feb 8, 2020

jawarden said:
I wasn't actually looking for which image "looked better" as a finished image, but rather which had more fidelity to the original image, whether it looked good or not. For me Photoshop produced a superior file to use as a starting point for sharpening and further adjustments, and it did so without blowing hilights, losing shadow detail or heavy handed sharpening that I saw in the giga file. These are subjective traits of course, except the parts about losing detail which would be a deal breaker for me.

Giga is much less expensive compared to Photoshop, so for those interested it's certainly worth your while to give it a free trial.

Evidently you used your free trial of Giga.. If you had used something with a "normal" contrast range, rather than a collection of chrome, your test would have been more convincing. I'll try that soon with a 28mp file of some sort....maybe a B&W.

jtk · Feb 8, 2020

jnantz said:
i don't typically need to uprez things but it looks useful who needs that done.

everything about photography is as fake as it gets. photographs aren't memories or reality
or anything else, but fakery.

No reason to argue with that Presidential pronouncement, but you've left out poetics

mshchem · Feb 8, 2020

The thing that this doesn't address is "the look" . We all know what an 8x10 contact print made with a 16 inch lens looks like. Or even a 6x7 negative shot with a 180mm. It's not about resolution. If it's resolution and sharpness latest phones can do that, 5mm lens everything is in focus, looks horrible.
I can get decent people pictures with my FF Nikon using a 85 1.4 or a 135 f 2. Still doesn't come close to a real large format portrait. MHOFWIW. Best Regards Mike.

warden · Feb 8, 2020

jtk said:
Evidently you used your free trial of Giga.. If you had used something with a "normal" contrast range, rather than a collection of chrome, your test would have been more convincing. I'll try that soon with a 28mp file of some sort....maybe a B&W.

Yes do so and share here please.

StepheKoontz · Feb 8, 2020

jtk said:
It's dramatic your examples (above) that Giga whups PS. Maybe you posted a mistake?

It destroyed the tonality of the original and "fools" you into thinking it's sharper. Blown highlights <> better. You are mistakenly focusing on resolution over tonality.

awty · Feb 8, 2020

StepheKoontz said:
It destroyed the tonality of the original and "fools" you into thinking it's sharper. Blown highlights <> better. You are mistakenly focusing on resolution over tonality.

And thats a big difference to me, some people dont seem to notice or care, sad, bit like being tone deaf.
Mind you none of it has any relevance if your pictures have nothing to say.

markbau · Feb 8, 2020

In the same way that microwave ovens didn't cause the demise of traditional ovens, cars did not cause the demise of bicycle's, and photography did not cause the demise of painting, I think that pronouncements that this latest software will cause the demise of MF/LF are, in the words of Mark Twain, greatly exaggerated. I have yet to see a digital print come close to what I can produce from a MF neg, I'm not talking about LPI or photographing lens test charts, I'm talking about how it "looks" which is something science has yet to invent a device to measure. And in any case, I just love the process of developing film and then putting the film in my enlarger and sloshing a print around in a tray of developer.

removed account4 · Feb 8, 2020

jtk said:
No reason to argue with that Presidential pronouncement, but you've left out poetics

should have said hum bug ! while i was at it

markbau · Feb 8, 2020

jtk said:
Others have been doing that for years. How many 8X10 cameras do we shoot?

I know that the USA has an insane gun culture but why would anyone shoot an 8x10 camera? If anyone hears of this happening please let me know so I can send money for postage.

lantau · Feb 8, 2020

I own a copy. As an existing customer of most of their products I got a deep discount when they launched it last year. I only played around a little. It's a so called AI, hence I expect it to do well if your image falls within what it's been trained on. Perhaps a film scan will get it to stumble?

It's not been around for years as someone said above. It's an upscaler, with interpolation and I'm sure clever sharpening is an essential, major component of it.

Oh, and I just bought a large format camera and had my first proper walk about with it today. Despite owning Gigapixel AI...

eddie · Feb 8, 2020

jtk said:
Don't need to argue with your personal preferences.

Creativity is all about personal preferences, though.

eddie · Feb 8, 2020

jtk said:
Giga and related software are killing MF/LF, which is obvious when comparing prices and popularity.

You could say the same about a McDonald's burger. Doesn't mean it's "killing" fine dining.

BrianShaw · Feb 8, 2020

We seem to be using different maps!

removed account4 · Feb 8, 2020

jtk said:
Don't need to argue with your personal preferences. Giga and related software are killing MF/LF, which is obvious when comparing prices and popularity.

I loved 4X5 Ektachrome, from E3-E6 but most labs that process it have vanished and they did funky work as they died.

sure for the general public this software will be great. they will be able to uprez their terrible scans they got from the pharmacy when their film wasn't returned, or they'll be able to make a masterpiece out of their cellphone photo. you're right not many people use 8x10 or film for that matter, and this is a great thing for regular? people who want this sort of service. that said, there are a lot of people on this website ( and other places on the internet no doubt ) who are happy to use film, small or large, black/white or color c41 or e6 and process it themselves and they either use a darkroom or scan and get whatever results they get without issue. so while it might be the deathnail for MF/LF for some folks that nail has already been pounded into the coffin years ago and it is kind of not relevant at this point for people who are happy to use film &c.
not sure what all the hype is about ... cause there seems to be a "film renaissance" going on these days according to people that monitor these things, photoshops are selling film and paper and cameras, and mom and pop photolabs seem to be doing well enough to be upgrading their processing equipment and investing in the future.

jtk · Feb 8, 2020

jnantz said:
sure for the general public this software will be great. they will be able to uprez their terrible scans they got from the pharmacy
when their film wasn't returned, or they'll be able to make a masterpiece out of their cellphone photo. you're right not many people use 8x10 or
film for that matter, and this is a great thing for regular? people who want this sort of service. that said, there are a lot of people on this website
( and other places on the internet no doubt ) who are happy to use film, small or large, black/white or color c41 or e6 and process it themselves
and they either use a darkroom or scan and get whatever results they get without issue. so while it might be the deathnail for MF/LF for some folks
that nail has already been pounded into the coffin years ago and it is kind of not relevant at this point for people who are happy to use film &c.
not sure what all the hype is about ... cause there seems to be a "film renaissance" going on these days according to people that monitor
these things, photoshops are selling film and paper and cameras, and mom and pop photolabs seem to be doing well enough to be upgrading
their processing equipment and investing in the future.

It'd be great if some of that was significant, or even true

jtk · Feb 8, 2020

The main thing my OT has created is uninformed hysteria. BTW, if I wanted to simulate what Giga demonstrates I would rely heavily on NIK "structure" ...

StepheKoontz · Feb 8, 2020

awty said:
And thats a big difference to me, some people dont seem to notice or care, sad, bit like being tone deaf.
Mind you none of it has any relevance if your pictures have nothing to say.

It's why zooming in to 100% is so pointless. Zoomed in, this photograph looks like garbage...

http://100photos.time.com/photos/henri-cartier-bresson-behind-gare-saint-lazare

StepheKoontz · Feb 8, 2020

jtk said:
The main thing my OT has created is uninformed hysteria.

Or maybe given that no one has agreed with you, you are >gasp< wrong?

Sirius Glass · Feb 8, 2020

Film is not going away any time soon. I prefer to use traditional film development and printing after fifty years of electro-optical systems design and use for space programs such as Voyager, Cassini and others programs. I also have been writing state of the art software since October 1962. And yes I play two analog instruments including the oldest musical instrument. I see no reason to get excited about another software program, especially for photography.

removed account4 · Feb 8, 2020

jtk said:
It'd be great if some of that was significant, or even true

not sure what isn't true about what i posted. i guess because i didn't talk specifically about medium and large format film use? its a niche market for niche users. even when the major film manufacturers stop making film and photo paper there will still be people who use these cameras, so the program you linked to will be insignificant and irrelevant for some people. im sure pretty soon people won't need giant MP capture devices on their phones or p/s slr, mirrorless and these programs will be helpful and "built in" to correct everything that is needed to be corrected so the end user can enlarge to any size they want and the sky is the limit. sounds useful. makes me wonder about display, if someone is going to up-rez their images to mega giant sizes they might want to look at them on something better than a cellphone or computer monitor, they might want to have a giant super thin display on one's wall and have an endless shuffle of hyper-large images instead of anything physical and tangible. sounds like a plan .. if that is what someone wants. they've already made auto lacing nike hitops and hoverboards like back to the future 2, giant thin screens are just about there too, after all that was 2015.

Cholentpot · Feb 8, 2020

I've been shooting landscapes on a 110 system. I just loaded up some film in a pocket 16mm spy camera. I guess my small format is killing the large formats.

nmp · Feb 9, 2020

End of LF/MF might be near (though I don't have any opinion on that) but it won't be because of the so-called AI (which is more like machine learning) programs of today. This is by the way not a new development, it's been around for a while. In any case, why won't shooters of MF also use this technology of make their photos look like LF and LF to ULF and so on.

End of road for MF/LF...

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