Emulsion Chefs Roundup

Well, they also have PMT solution and TAI solution for sale but not listed.

PE

PE,
The top guy at Artcraft is very cooperative as far as getting dyes is concerned. Sigma will not sell to me anymore. But they will sell to Artcraft. I can buy several pounds of silver nitrate for the price of 1 gram of dye from Sands.
Bill

Actually, I found the Stains-All on ebay. It is a 5 gram bottle of the Eastman Organics #2718 IIRC. Quite a few years old but seems to be just fine. Chemsavers and Lab Depot are other places to hunt.

I am working with a cheap source of cyanine dye at the moment. It works, but I haven't yet really confirmed how well, as in is it worth the trouble to obtain it.

Dyes off-the-shelf are not cheap but are at the upper end of affordable for the hobbyist. The Sands dyes are off-the-charts. What is fortunate is that as Denise has said, a little can go a very long way.

If anyone wishes, they can send me a strip 35mm x 6" and I can expose it in a spectrosensitometer for them and return the unprocessed strip.

After processing, the result is a wedge spectrogram in 10 nm increments.

However, that is provided the wedge spectrophotometer is still working. I have not used it for about 1 year and it is a crabby machine. Like an obtuse child or pet sometimes but this is due to extreme old age.

PE

Hi All,

This thread has had an encouraging run! But, as happens, it ran down. If no one minds I'd like to bump it periodically. I could post something I'm doing to make the bump more "legitimate", but I'd really much rather see what other people are doing. I hope a moderator or reader will let me know (gently, please ) if bumping like this is in poor form. In the meantime, I hope more people post pics and progress!

Ron, I hope you get your crabby spec'meter running. That's a very generous offer.
d

Well, Nick has a series of pics with our new all Bromide emulsion that he sent me. Looks like 25 - 50 iso, but we have to refine development time. No Iodide or any other addenda, just Sulfur. So, we have a lot to do.

I am urging him to join APUG, but Mark is keeping him busy at GEH, and he just got engaged. Don't tell anyone I told you!

PE

Hi PE
I wonder- What is the advantage of All Br vs, Br/I. I WAS working on a high I emulsion. But I put that aside and started doing Dye Experiments again I have not given up on the high I emulsion. But I need to finish my dye experiments first.
Bill

I am interested in emulsion making and often peruse these threads, but I've never undertaken to do it myself. I'd like to get to Rochester for one of PE's workshops sometime, if only for informational purposes. While it's something I'd like to do (maybe so I can still practice photography after a zombie apocalypse?), I fear that it's another rabbit hole I don't have time for. But I'll happily read about it.

Guys, in Mees or Mees and James, they show a graph of the spectral sensitivity of a Bromide emulsion with different levels of Iodide. It gains sensitivity in the visible region as Iodide goes up.

Also, if the Iodide is added after precipitation and digestion/ripening, the contrast will go up as well.

This is difficult to control without causing fog. So, you stay below 3% Iodide to prevent fog from forming.

PE

PE,
Dose that not beg the question: Why are you and Nick making an "all bromide" emulsion?
Sorry Nick. You may answer this question if you read it.
Bill

eng1er said:

I am interested in emulsion making and often peruse these threads, but I've never undertaken to do it myself. I'd like to get to Rochester for one of PE's workshops sometime, if only for informational purposes. While it's something I'd like to do (maybe so I can still practice photography after a zombie apocalypse?), I fear that it's another rabbit hole I don't have time for. But I'll happily read about it.

Click to expand...

eng1er:

it's really not a rabbit hole unless you choose it to be one .. like anything.
as a silly broke college student I did emulsion making experiments, it was some of the
most fun I had my last semesters ... I found an old recipe in an old " annual" and tried it.
I didn' know scientific technique other than high school chemistry classes and there was absolutely no one who
had a clue about what Iwas doing. I got some weird images so I guess what I made was light sensitive
but what I am getting at is it can be a rabbit hole of seeking perfection
Or it can just be a fun endeavor ... I too read these threads and the light farm thinking of the end of days,
but I also think of being able to make something that is unique, fun and will free me from having to search for expired film
and paper ( which is all I can really afford these days )
I won't go far into the rabbit hole .. I won't be coating film, just glass and paper, and
I won't be trying to get uber sensitivity .. just portrait sitting time which might require
a head clamp

I've begun selling and giving away some of my film, so my end of days is getting closer

cheers!
john
r

wildbillbugman said:

PE,
Dose that not beg the question: Why are you and Nick making an "all bromide" emulsion?
Sorry Nick. You may answer this question if you read it.
Bill

Click to expand...

It will not be when we are done. As a good teacher, I am taking him step by step through the building blocks of emulsion making and showing him what goes on. He is now at a very good point in emulsion making and is about to take his next step.

I am due to go over to GEH to review that and several other steps with Nick soon.

PE

Thanks PE,
I did not realize that you were doing this as a teaching technique. It looked like you were advocating Br+I but then advocating no I. I had no idea that Nick is a student of yours. As I said recently, I have been gone awhile.
Bill

PE,
Another question. Somewhere back when you were explaining in detail how to use S and Au to increase photospeed of emulsions, you indicated that S to Au should be 3:1.
Steigmann's Solution is closer to 8:1. This mixture seams to work well. Could Steigmann's be improved with more Au?
Bill

All I can tell you is what we used. We used Hypo/Gold or Hypo/Thiocyanate/Gold. The total S:Au was 3:1.

PE

jnanian said:

it's really not a rabbit hole unless you choose it to be one .. like anything.

Click to expand...

Perfect! Wisdom for the ages .

jnanian said:

I've begun selling and giving away some of my film, so my end of days is getting closer

Click to expand...

YAY!

wildbillbugman said:

PE,
Another question. Somewhere back when you were explaining in detail how to use S and Au to increase photospeed of emulsions, you indicated that S to Au should be 3:1.
Steigmann's Solution is closer to 8:1. This mixture seams to work well. Could Steigmann's be improved with more Au?
Bill

Click to expand...

Steigmann's does indeed work very well. Since a number of people have indicated that they read this sub-forum for general info, here's the recipe.

Preparing a frugal amount of Steigmann's: Make a 1% solution of ammonium thiocyanate (2 g Amthio in 200 ml distilled water at 52°C/125°F, cooled to room temperature). Mix 12 drops of 1% gold chloride with 5 ml of the Amthio solution. Store at room temperature in a very small amber dropper bottle.

(note: I have a good scale, but I am nevertheless leery of accurately weighing amounts of a gram or less. By doubling the Amthio solution, I am much more sure that it will be right -- and ammonium thiocyanate is inexpensive .) 1% gold chloride is available from a number of photochemical supply places. I buy mine from Photographers' Formulary.

Nick recently made a large batch of our AgBr emulsion and took it on a field trip. He just e-mailed me about a dozen shots from 4x5 plates. They look great. And we have so much more to do with this one such as add gold and add green sensitizer.

I've just inserted one earlier photo into the proper section of the new book.

PE

I saw Nick's new plates this afternoon at the GEH and they looked very good.

Yeah Fred, he got some good stuff there. We've been firing off notes today and yesterday over this.

wow

Never tried emulsion making but this stuff is absolutely riveting. Denise, your site is really interesting, I will certainly put kitchen emulsion making on my list of things to try!

It seems from a quick perusal of this material, that the simpler to prepare recipes seem to be slower and less contrasty, and to get better speed and contact one must step up to the more complex formulae (more steps, more ingredients)? Is impression generally true?

How close are you guys to something ISO 50-100, nice and contrasty, with acceptable resolution, that a reasonably skilled person could prepare at home?

That would seem to be the benchmark to me-

Keep up the good work guys, seems like you have a remarkable group of people involved in this fascinating project!

Hi '1920'!

Glad you like TLF.

Love your username. Any significance to it? It's one of my favorite photographic years. I hope it means you're about to embark on emulsion making!

Speed and contrast isn't really cut and dried as far as technique goes. The slower emulsions are generally more contrasty. The "faster" an emulsion gets the lower the contrast (and that is often a very good thing.) It's the same as with commercial film. There are exceptions, of course, but that's a pretty reliable rule of thumb.

ASA (up to) 100 film (or dry plates) has been done for quite a while now. It is definitely within the ability of anyone who could bake a cake from scratch. I call the recipe "X2Ag" and TLF is full of examples of photos taken with the emulsion.

I haven't published the recipe yet. I'm holding on to it as a shameless hook to buy my book coming out in June (I don't like the idea of sunspots erasing all my hard work from the Universe .) I love websites, but dead tree publications make me more comfortable that the information will persist!)

Although 'X2Ag' won't be a free recipe, there are lots of recipes with detailed instructions on my website. The recipe "TLF#2" is ASA 25-50 (depending on the UV level/time of year). http://www.thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmlgen.py?content=29aDec2011

At any rate, it's best to start with the simplest recipes and go from there. I hope you give it a try. If you have access to the workshops at George Eastman House in Rochester, NY, Nick Brandreth teaches an excellent class on the very simplest of dry plate recipes. The GEH page on Facebook will give you a lot of pics and information.

The attached images are all 'X2Ag' in various film cameras. All handheld at various times of the year. The one of the balloon kites was taken during high wind. The kites were whipping around in the air fast enough to worry about their tie-downs. The shot from my canoe was with an old Kodak Target Six-20 box camera. The canoe was not steady! The portrait of the fisherman was with a Pentax 645 camera. If you are unfamiliar with the camera, it has an exposure meter and automatic film advance. Handmade film handles identically to commercial. A slower film, or dark days, would just need a tripod.

Anyway, good luck and fun with whatever your photographic endeavors!
d

We are bumping ISO 50 here, and I have an ISO 400 formula that I am trying to master. So, these things are possible.

If you can get to GEH for a workshop, I will probably be there as part of the "staff" teaching emulsion making. Nick does a fantastic job, as does Mark.

A note to Denise. Have you changed your philosophy about reserving rights to your formulas? Your statement here: http://dwrphotos.com/blog/EmulsionResearch.htm at the very bottom of the page seems to be contrary to what you said above in your post.

Clarification would be useful.

PE

Photo Engineer said:

We are bumping ISO 50 here, and I have an ISO 400 formula that I am trying to master. So, these things are possible.

If you can get to GEH for a workshop, I will probably be there as part of the "staff" teaching emulsion making. Nick does a fantastic job, as does Mark.

A note to Denise. Have you changed your philosophy about reserving rights to your formulas? Your statement here: http://dwrphotos.com/blog/EmulsionResearch.htm at the very bottom of the page seems to be contrary to what you said above in your post.

Clarification would be useful.

PE

Click to expand...

Actually, I thought I was very clear.

“I haven't published the recipe yet. I'm holding on to it as a shameless hook to buy my book coming out in June (I don't like the idea of sunspots erasing all my hard work from the Universe.) I love websites, but dead tree publications make me more comfortable that the information will persist!)”

The book will be priced at the printing cost. I will be gifting it to a number of photographic education programs, including GEH. I imagine it won’t take long for any recipe to enter the aether, but there’s not much any of us can do about that, nor do I care much. I just want a few paper copies of TLF floating about.

As always, thank you for your encouragement and support.
d

I hope it sells well.

Best wishes.

PE