Efke let down

tjaded · Nov 20, 2006

Just thought I would share some Efke results that we not so hot. The other day I went out to shoot and decided to shoot a couple of sheets of Efke iso 25 4x5 film. The major let down for me was the large number of "specs" on the neg with absolutely nothing on the base, obviously resulting in black spots on the positive. Is this a common thing or something that they have addressed? It was an older box, so I'm hoping it is a problem of the past. I never really got to excited about the 120 from Efke because the base was so thin and fragile, but the 4x5 base seems much more hardy. Anyone else run into this?

coriana6jp · Nov 20, 2006

If I may ask, how are you processing it? I had the exact same trouble with it when I first started. But now I have great results with the film.

If you are using an acid stop bath, switch to a water stop. When I used an acid stop bath, I always had pin holes, since I switched to a water stop my results have been much better. Also I process it in an expert drum, which eliminates the need to touch the film during processing. Its also helped cut down on scratches and other problems.

Sorry its not much to go on, but I hope it helps.

Gary

P C Headland · Nov 20, 2006

Never had a problem myself either, in 120, 9x12cm or 4x5 with Efke 25 or 100.

I use Rodinal 1+100 at 20C and reduced agitation, with a water stop bath. I process the sheets in a 120 daylight tank, either with a single sheet slipped in, or multiple sheets using the taco method. Normal tap water works fine for me here in NZ and previously in NL.

tjaded · Nov 20, 2006

I used a water stop bath, film hangers, Edwal FG7 1:15, Ilford fix w/hardner. I shot two sheets and both are pock marked with these pinholes. The 120 I used in the past did not have pinholes.

Arvee · Nov 20, 2006

I shot 10 rolls of Efke 135 and was amazed at the chunks of junk, eyelashes, etc. buried in the emulsion. I normally shoot 30 rolls/mo. and have never seen such poor QC in the premium brands. You get what you pay for. I see the same junk in the emulsion of the brands from Hungary.

Good for non-critical stuff but would never shoot anything that mattered.

mmcclellan · Nov 20, 2006

These horror stories are something I've never encountered in my many, many rolls of Efke I have shot and processed. The results, in fact, were exquisite with R-09 developer, water stop bath, and any fixer. I think the problem may be the stop, as Gary said.

My results with Forte film were uniformly disastrous, but with Efke they have always been outstanding. It's the closest I've found to being a true replacement for my all-time favorite, Agfapan 25. I would definitely NOT give up on it, but switch to water stop bath and keep testing. It's worth the effort.

matti · Nov 20, 2006

I got spots on my 18x24 cm Tasma-film yeasterday due to washing two films in the same tray and the corner of one film scratched the other. If it looks like the emulsion is torn away at the spots, something like that might be the reason. Efke films are not as hard as most films. I don't have any LF experience with efke, though. (But I will get 100 sheets of 18x24 cm efke 100 for my stash on wednesday.)
/matti

Tom Stanworth · Nov 20, 2006

I tried and tried but had probs with QC too so gave up. Could never be sure that what I expos was not stuffed one way or another so went back to Ilford when they refloated.

Robert Hall · Nov 20, 2006

I get "spots" from time to time with sheet film. I find that it is from dirt and dust either in the film holders or from shooting conditions here in the desert.

I have use the efke up to 12x20 sheets. I have not had any problems with it except the emulsion is softer than some of the films from larger companies.

Guillaume Zuili · Nov 20, 2006

Hi,
I had the same problems as you at first. I process 135 and 4x5 in Jobo. I resolved most of the issue by using hardening fix.

colivet · Nov 22, 2006

Sometimes development that is too fast will create pinholes in the emulsion that are going to show up in the print. Inspect one sheet or roll of film to see wether the emulsion looks bad or not before you rule out this film.

Tom Hoskinson · Nov 22, 2006

Hi, I use a lot of Efke 25 and Efke 100 in 35mm, 120 rollfilm, 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10. I develop the rollfilm on SS Hewes reels in SS tanks. I develop the sheet film in ABS plastic tubes and in trays with Pyrocat developers. I use a 5 minute tempered water presoak and then develop followed by a tempered water rinse (no stop bath). I fix with Ryuji's Neutral pH non-hardening rapid fixer. I have never had any problems with this film.

Efke emulsion is rather soft and must be handled with care.

A hardening fixer or stop bath does not help if you scratch, nick or gouge the emulsion prior to or during development.

Curt · Nov 23, 2006

With Efke/Adox I use Zonal Pro Rapid fix. You can get it from Freestyle Photo and it works great and is in liquid so it is easy to mix. I presoak, develop, water stop, fix, wash, hypo clear and the standard procedures. I tried the fixer and like it. I used to use Kodak Rapid fix with Panatomic-X and Agfa Pan and it too worked well. Use care in processing and presoak and water rinse instead of stop bath.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Curt

bicubic · Nov 23, 2006

Add to this the streaking that has appeared in my 4x5 sheets of Efke (25 iso). I've contacted J & C (supplier) but they can't be bothered getting back to me to exchange it - apparently this is not a new issue. It scans well but for me it isn't worth the risk (time) or money (thanks J & C). Sad.

coriana6jp · Nov 23, 2006

bicubic said:
Add to this the streaking that has appeared in my 4x5 sheets of Efke (25 iso). I've contacted J & C (supplier) but they can't be bothered getting back to me to exchange it - apparently this is not a new issue. It scans well but for me it isn't worth the risk (time) or money (thanks J & C). Sad.

Usually John at JandC is very very good about getting back to people and fixing problems. I have never had that problem with him, he has always been fast and very polite. I think now that JandC is moving/expanding he is no able to answer his emails as fast as normal.

Honestly, he is a good guy to deal with.

Regards.

Gary

Tom Hoskinson · Nov 23, 2006

bicubic said:
Add to this the streaking that has appeared in my 4x5 sheets of Efke (25 iso). I've contacted J & C (supplier) but they can't be bothered getting back to me to exchange it - apparently this is not a new issue. It scans well but for me it isn't worth the risk (time) or money (thanks J & C). Sad.

Please describe your developing process.

Have you developed and fixed an unexposed sheet from this box of film?

If you have, does it show the streaks?

BTW, I have been buying Efke and other films from J&C for a long time.

I have found J&C to be very courteous, straightforward and responsive.

Ian Grant · Nov 23, 2006

Like Tom I've used the original Adox branded films (made by EFKE under license from Dupont) and now the more modern EFKE versions sold under their own name, (the license expired & the film has evolved slighty).

In over 25 years I've never had a problem with these films. having said that these films do need more care than most. Processing 10x8's in J&C's welding rod holders (yes they sell them as processing tubes) is not to be recommended, tray processing is far safer.

Comments like "and was amazed at the chunks of junk, eyelashes, etc. buried in the emulsion" make one wonder who or what you have allowed near your film as you processed it.

This reads more like "poor workmen blaming their tools", in this case film & processing chemicalls.

EFKE films and also Forte have good quality control, and although in a league behind Kodak, Ilford etc are catching up fast.

A great many photographers are using EFKE's films with no problems

Ian

QUOTE=Tom Hoskinson;396394]
Have you developed and fixed an unexposed sheet from this box of film?

If you have, does it show the streaks?
[/QUOTE]

Photo Engineer · Nov 23, 2006

These stories about EFKE products varying all over the map lead me to believe that there is a problem with production. They appear unable to turn out a product with consistant quality if all of this is true.

PE

nworth · Nov 24, 2006

I think a lot of the problems have to do with the softer emulsion of the EFKE films. I've had several horror episodes with PL-100M in 2-1/4X3-1/4 sheets. At least some could be traced to sheets rubbing against one another during processing and thereby getting holes and scratches. Ilford and (especially) Kodak films are superhardened and resist reticulation and moderately rough handling. EFKE films appear not to be.

Ian Grant · Nov 24, 2006

Tom made a post, I didn't see it, he deleted it - I also began to post a reply to PE, then thought I can't be bothered.

Reality is you can't make swathing comments about any manufacturer from comments posted about their products on the internet, particularly when you have no experience at all of the products.

I should add here that as a former manufacturer of photographic emulsions I had a visit from a very wiley Kodak employee, he wanted to know exactly what I was doing, although in sales and in his 60's he had been previously an emulsion chemist.

The EFKE plant is ex-Dupont and Kodak (EK) would know exactly what their capabilities are.

So for PE to make remarks like this means we need to be wary of his own claims of his work at Eastman Kodak.

Ian

Ian Grant · Nov 24, 2006

Your entirely right.

EFKE films are quite soft, not as soft as they used to be 25+ years ago, but they need more respect than any other manufacturers films.

As long as the Dev, Stop, Fix & wash temperatures are within 1 or 2 degrees C you'll be fine, a hardenening fixer will help.

Personally I think a drying cabinet with a fan heater maybe detrimental, I've only used them a few times, the fan seems to throw dust etc onto the drying emulsion.

To get great results with EFKE films needs only the finesse you should be using with Ilford or Kodak to get the highest quality.

Ian

nworth said:
I think a lot of the problems have to do with the softer emulsion of the EFKE films.

Alex Bishop-Thorpe · Nov 24, 2006

This topic got sorta divided huh - But I have a box of ADOX films in 35mm and 120 I'll be trying out over the summer, so I'll guess I'll make up my own mind. Horror stories dont come from nowhere though, so I hardly think PE should be condemed for his suspicion of a product that has received widely varying reviews. Buyer beware, simple as that.

Photo Engineer · Nov 24, 2006

Ian Grant said:
Tom made a post, I didn't see it, he deleted it - I also began to post a reply to PE, then thought I can't be bothered.

Reality is you can't make swathing comments about any manufacturer from comments posted about their products on the internet, particularly when you have no experience at all of the products.

I should add here that as a former manufacturer of photographic emulsions I had a visit from a very wiley Kodak employee, he wanted to know exactly what I was doing, although in sales and in his 60's he had been previously an emulsion chemist.

The EFKE plant is ex-Dupont and Kodak (EK) would know exactly what their capabilities are.

So for PE to make remarks like this means we need to be wary of his own claims of his work at Eastman Kodak.

Ian

Ian;

Thank you so much. I wonder what you mean by that.

I have EFKE film here in my home right now, and have photographs of their plant. I know what defects exist and what capabilities they have. I am assuredly not just basing my comments on what is posted.

I just don't wish to go into detail here, as they do make some very good products, but then again they have some very serious problems. If you notice, I have not gone into detail about anyones shortcomings for the most part, as good can be found in just about any product if it serves a need or works for the individual.

As for my work at EK, the results in terms of workshops and students seem to speak for themselves.

If you were a manufacturer of photographic products, why are you not out there preserving our analog heritage by teaching some workshops yourself or publishing some concrete information to help the rest of us?

PE

Eric Rose · Nov 24, 2006

I have just finished souping around 80 sheets of Efke PL 100 in 4x5. Only 1 sheet has a pin hole emulsion defect. Not bad. I am not one to baby any of my gear and that includes film. Much has been said about Efke being soft. In my experience this is not the case. I have had no problems with scratches. In Calgary we live in a VERY dry climate and I have found many sheet films seem to develop quite an attraction to dust. For some reason the Efke stuff doesn't have the same issues. I have no idea why.

So far I have been very impressed with the stuff and like PE says pretty much any film will give you good results if you handle it the right way.

I've been at this over 30 years and believe me I have had bum film from everyone at one time or another. It just happens. Get over it. Move on. Don't sweat it.

Brac · Nov 25, 2006

I think from reading many threads on the subect of Efke films that it is clear that quality control isn't up to the standard of Ilford, Kodak, and Fuji which means, unfortunately, that there will sometimes be disappointing results with these films. I know it isn't very fashionable these days but when I was using Efke films regularly (mainly in 120) back in the 1980's I always used a hardening fixer. Only once did I experience a pinhole problem and I accept that could have been due to a mistake on my part. Possibly due to reticulation. as in the darkroom I then used I had major problems in keeping solutions at the correct temperature in the Winter months.

Efke let down

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