Efke KB100 with beutler - howto developp ?

Alicouscous · Mar 6, 2018

Hello , I've developped efke KB100 ( exposed at 100 ) in beutler 1+1+8 for 15 minutes . The result is flat wit burned highlights .
How can I have best results ? exposed to 200 and developping 21 minutes ?
Could you give me an idea ?

trendland · Mar 6, 2018

Generaly : You would need the avoid of overexposure/overdevelopement?
Then you should first shorten your exposure/developement. From your given example it looks like a bit more tv an a full stop correction.
Next is the contrast. I am wondering about delution of beutler in your example. What is your intention to come to such delution? Your intention is to control contrast or is it in regard of sharpness?
with regards
PS : Don't worry to much about your first results with beutler. I have seen worst failures by preparing new developements at the first time. You allways have some corrections on different workflows.

trendland · Mar 6, 2018

Smartphone is a bit dyslexic sorry !
......... a bit more t h a n a full stop.
with regards

trendland · Mar 6, 2018

OK - Alisouscous I just checked it Form my notes. Your time with beutler isn't correct. With medium films the developer time should be "arround" 10 - 12 min.
Perhaps you need in addition delution
1 + 1 + 10 this also should help a bit against overdevelopement.
The control of contrast should work as following : Change the ammound of part A (just a little) I guess 10 - 15 % should be enough to higher the contrast.
(Just if it is still necessary after corection of exposure/or developing time)
If I am not (total) incorect this may change developer characteristics in regard of higher contrasts.
But pls. be carefull - you also change the developer characteristics in direction of increasing grain (remember the aggressive neofin red type! ).
with regards

darkosaric · Mar 6, 2018

In official site of Fotokemika (now long gone) they always stated that you should not overexpose this film. Try with iso 160 or 200 - developing times are here:

http://www.fotokemika.hr/hr/detalji/41/0/crnobijeli-filmovi/35

Also take a look here:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/pushing-efke-kb100-to-200.63228/#post-899591

GRHazelton · Mar 6, 2018

In the late '50s and early '60 my Father and I rolled our own Beutler and after some experimentation shot Plus X at about ASA 300. Sorry but I don't remember dilutions or times. The resultant slightly flat negs were easily printed on the old Luminos FB number 3 paper and yielded excellent enlargements 8 x 10 or larger from 35 mm negs, from his AsahiFlex IIa and my Japanese Beauty. Yes, that was its name! Good little machine. My 127 Komaflex S using IIRC Verichrome Pan rated to about ASA 300 was also excellent. While with Beutler the grain was there, it was very tight, and the compensating action increased perceived sharpness. I should revisit Beutler,

Alan Johnson · Mar 6, 2018

Here's one on Efke 25 @EI=32 with a yellow filter developed in Beutler 1+1+10 for 8min 20C.
There is no time for Efke 100 in the massive development chart but it seems to be a bit higher for the 100 than the Efke 25 and 50 so I suggest to expose at EI=100 and develop for 9-10 min 20 C.

Alicouscous · Mar 6, 2018

Hello all ! Thank you for help and good informations !
I've made tests all the afternoon .
@trendland : yes 15 minutes is to much , and in my test , 9-10 minutes is the best ( but some highlihts are burned )
@darkosaric : it looks like a good idea to expose @200 ASA to protect the highlights - Tomorrow i'll test a film exposed @200ASA and processed in D76 11 minutes 30 (maybe i'll test beutler for 13 minutes )
@Alan Jonhson Efke 25 and Efke 50 are similary with only one stop difference . Efke 100 has a different tonality and contrast and is more grainy . They'are all beautiful films .

i've a stock from 100 meters efke 100 and 60 meters from efke 50 , it's my treasure and I want the best for this film from the past !

A++ and thank you !

miha · Mar 6, 2018

darkosaric said:
In official site of Fotokemika (now long gone) they always stated that you should not overexpose this film.

Hi Darko, sorry to be padantic but this is not their offical site, Fotokemika / EFKE never had one.

darkosaric · Mar 7, 2018

miha said:
Hi Darko, sorry to be padantic but this is not their offical site, Fotokemika / EFKE never had one.

That could be true, but I remember when I was visiting Fotokemika in Hondlova street, and in Samobor (I lived in Zagreb for more than 15 years) - they always pointed me to this web page.

EDIT: I just looked who is the owner of fotokemika.hr domain (because .hr domain can be given in Croatia only to companies, organisations or freelancers, and the owner is company Fotokemika from Samobor, can be checked in www.dns.hr).

twelvetone12 · Mar 7, 2018

Alicouscous said:
Hello , I've developped efke KB100 ( exposed at 100 ) in beutler 1+1+8 for 15 minutes .

I do efke 100 in Beutler 1+1+8 for 8 minutes, love it. 15 minutes sounds brutally overdeveloped!

miha · Mar 7, 2018

darkosaric said:
That could be true, but I remember when I was visiting Fotokemika in Hondlova street, and in Samobor (I lived in Zagreb for more than 15 years) - they always pointed me to this web page.

EDIT: I just looked who is the owner of fotokemika.hr domain (because .hr domain can be given in Croatia only to companies, organisations or freelancers, and the owner is company Fotokemika from Samobor, can be checked in www.dns.hr).

Zdravo Darko, e, možda sam u krivu.. Anyway, thanks for pointing this out. The content, however, including such BS as "silver rich", was added latter on, not by Fotokemika people, as can be seen here: http://www.fotokemika.hr/details/35/0/black-white-films/120-127

Alicouscous · Mar 7, 2018

I do efke 100 in Beutler 1+1+8 for 8 minutes, love it. 15 minutes sounds brutally overdeveloped!

yes, in my tests yesterday 9minutes was better . I'll try 8 minutes too .

If I consider 8 minutes 30 is the best for 100 ASA , how many time for 200 ASA ? 11 minutes sounds OK ?

destroya · Mar 7, 2018

for rollei retro 400s/superpan, I shoot at 200 and use 1+1+10, yes 10 parts water, for 9.5 min at 20c. there is a good thread on rangefinder forum about beutler.

Andrew O'Neill · Mar 7, 2018

If your high values are dense on the negative, you'll need to cut back on the development time at that dilution.

Gerald C Koch · Mar 7, 2018

Willi Beutler recommended a thin negative. That is one that still has good shadow detail. Acutance developers require more attention to detail. You must meter carefully and also not over develop the negatives. When I shot Pan-X I used an EI of 80 rather than the box speed of 40. I would not change the dilution from that recommended 1+1+8. Remember that development determines contrast while exposure creates density.

GRHazelton · Mar 7, 2018

Gerald C Koch said:
Willi Beutler recommended a thin negative. That is one that still has good shadow detail. Acutance developers require more attention to detail. You must meter carefully and also not over developer the negatives. When I shot Pan-X I used an EI of 80 rather than the box speed of 40. I would not change the dilution from that recommended 1+1+8. Remember that development determines contrast while exposure creates density.

Hear, hear! As I've mentioned elsewhere, my Father and I mixed up Beutler's soup from his formula, and shot 35 mm Plus X at about ASA 300. Our negatives were a bit thin, but yielded excellent enlargements on Luminos FB grade 3. With a little care 8 x 10s were easy; 11 x 14s attainable with a little more care. As far as I remember we adhered to Willi's recommendations for dilutions, etc.. I need to go back to Beutler and try it again, after some years of D-76. I have a AsahiFlex IIa out for repair, that camera was what my Father shot. A few rounds with Beutler and Ilford FP 4 Plus would be a good return to my roots....

Efke KB100 with beutler - howto developp ?

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency