Efke IR 820 in 120, lets compare notes...

[PKM-25]

Before I scream!

Emulsion number is 710613, date is 2009-2. All from Freestyle, purchased at three different times.

I have shot 6 rolls of this stuff now in 120 and I just cant get rid of the thousands of black flecks of crap that smatter my negs. I have tried stop bath, water stop, citrus stop, fresh fix, water temps so tight it could soup E-6, Rodinal, PMK Pryo and no dice.

Is ANYONE having luck with getting good negs from this batch?

 

[PKM-25]

Using distilled water in everything right now to give it another chance.

I can't believe no one has responded to this, does anyone use this film in 120?

 

[coriana6jp]

I have been shooting the stuff for the last year or so, and have not encountered this. I just checked my batch numbers and they are the same as yours. I am using D76 straight. My normal procedure is a 5 min water pre-rinse, followed by the developer 7min(if I recall), followed by a water stop, and another water stop, then Ilford Rapid fix for 7 minutes and finally a 20 to 30 minute wash in plain running water. I dont use anything else, and my negs have come out perfectly everytime (at least to my eyes)

Hope it helps.

Gary

 

[PKM-25]

Yep, that helps, I have not tried the pre-soak yet, I assume you are doing that at 68F?

Film is drying, I'll take a look at it and see. I used PMK Pyro and even with a two minute increase over the massive time of 13 minutes, the negs still look a tad thin.

 

[Thanasis]

Using distilled water in everything right now to give it another chance.

I can't believe no one has responded to this, does anyone use this film in 120?

I was going to buy some, but now im not so sure.

 

[PKM-25]

Well, I still have the same problem, black flecks all over the neg, everywhere, in between the frames, all over the place.

So here is the method used this time:

Efke IR 820 in 120. PMK Pyro according to the massive chart plus two minutes ( 2+4+100 for 13 minutes at 21c ) Ilford citrus stop, Kodak rapid fix, all mixed with distilled water.

This is killing me, I need to be able to shoot this for an ad campaign in a couple weeks and it is not going to work. I have a stash of HIE in 120 I am trying to use for specific projects. If the Efke in the 5 minute pre-soak / D76 combo does not work it looks like I might have to squander a few rolls of HIE 120..:-(

 

[PKM-25]

And here is the post that started it all back in Winter:

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[amuderick]

I have also had problems with gelatin frilling off the edges of Efke 100 film and then sticking/adhering to the image, ruining it. I was using a permanganate bleach which is known to soften the emulsion. Are you using a rotary process? I was. I have a suspicion that the increased turbulence enhanced the problem over 30-second agitation. I have it in my plans to try a chrome alum hardener. Haven't gotten to it yet.

 

[ntenny]

Same experience as Gary here. I have the same emulsion batch and have shot a few rolls with nothing that sounds like this problem. As far as I remember I've developed it in HC-110 and Diafine, with unremarkable inversion-tank processing (water stop). I normally use distilled water throughout and don't normally presoak (obviously not with Diafine, but as far as I can remember I haven't been presoaking it with HC-110 either).

I don't really have any good ideas. It sounds like you're trying distilled water now, which seems like a good way to cut down on the variables...

-NT

 

[PKM-25]

I had to pay out $240 to get these cleaned up by a willing photoshop guru, it just kills me, this film rocks for IR, but this the specks are out of control.

 

[PKM-25]

And this one...

 

[David William White]

PKM: I've had similar experiences -- you're not the only one. I've only shot two rolls of 120, just to bracket and learn how much exposure I needed, but both were pretty spotty. And developed in the same batch of D-76 that fetched me 20+ sheets of Tri-X super-smooth. I made a mental note to try again with D-76 1+1, figuring there might be some micro-avalanche local over-development at full strength, but that is just a guess.

I have tamed it a bit with some diffusion during printing, so I didn't fret it too much...

 

[PKM-25]

I might run a test and send it to dr5 labs and see what that gives...

 

[kraker]

I can't believe no one has responded to this, does anyone use this film in 120?

I've shot one roll, I would have to check the emulsion number (assuming it's printed on the negs), and I saw some tiny specks on some the frames. Mind you, I had been way, *way* too optimistic with the exposure, so the negatives are very thin. Therefore I don't think it's fair for me to draw conclusions just yet. I've currently got one roll left, if and when I shoot that, I'll certainly look for the spots you mention and post the results here.

I would also have to check my notes to see what developer etc. I used. Let me know if you'd like to know.

 

[Doug Webb]

I have used this film in 120 and 4x5. The only time I get anything like what you are describing is when I have seriously underexposed the film. When I did that the negatives were very thin in the highlights and no detectable image in the shadows, and sometimes there were lots of spots on the negatives. Developing more doesn't help when the negative is underexposed. If you are trying to use an EI of 6 with this film, don't expect this to produce a pronounced infrared effect, bright white foliage for example, unless it is a blazingly bright day with the sun relatively high in the sky. If the light is very uneven, like it is in some of the shots you posted, the highlights may look the way you want but the shadows will be grainy and very underexposed. I have posted a few shots using this film in my gallery.
Good luck, hope you don't give up on this great film.
Doug Webb

 

[PKM-25]

If you are trying to use an EI of 6 with this film, don't expect this to produce a pronounced infrared effect, bright white foliage for example, unless it is a blazingly bright day with the sun relatively high in the sky. If the light is very uneven, like it is in some of the shots you posted, the highlights may look the way you want but the shadows will be grainy and very underexposed.

Well that is unfortunate. What good is a film that you can not fully articulate your skills with?

I tend to stay away from ordinary lighting in my images as it does not do a lot for me creatively speaking. For example, if I shot the scene with the long shadows at 2 PM, the impact would totally be gone, no shot in my mind, just like everyone else's, why bother?

The IR shots that get my attention are the ones with dramatic lighting. But to be clear, the very first roll I tested was in full sunlight in Winter, "Sunny F/20" to be exact. It still had the dreaded spots.

What are you getting in full sunlight with a R72 at around F/16?

Kodak HIE does not do this, it is ( was ) superb in all lighting conditions. I have 50 rolls of it in 120 and 75 in 35mm, I guess I ought to return the 820 and just move on in life..

 

[thefizz]

I also have had major trouble with Efke IR 820 film in 120. Dark spots as you mentioned plus holes and tiny scratches seem to be the features of this film. I've gone through about 30 rolls in the last year and these problems have been present on most of them.

My water is filtered and I do not use an acid stop. All my other normal B&W films are clean with no problems at all.

I love the effect which the Efke IR film provides but its a bit of a lottery as to whether you get a clean neg or not. Their quality control must be none existent.

 

[Travis Nunn]

This is an interesting thread. I've gone through maybe a dozen rolls of this in 120 and I've yet to experience any of the problems mentioned here. I certainly don't think I'm doing anything special. I pre-rinse, develop in D-76, water for stop, Zonal Pro Rapid Fix and then wash.

As far as exposure goes, I meter through my filter (B+W 89b) and go from there.

That being said, I've tried Efke 25 and 50 in the past and got so frustrated with their QC (or lack thereof) that I gave up completely and sold what film of theirs I had left. This IR film is the only film of theirs I've had good luck with.

 

[PKM-25]

OK, I am starting to see a pattern associated with underexposure on Flicker:

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=IR+820

In the images of the woman in low light and a couple of the stereo ones, you can see the spots..

I am going to go out and give this some burly exposure in even light and then pre-soak it. I see other people getting great results from this film in dramatic light so I am still a bit skeptical...

 

[Photo Engineer]

Had you ever considered that it might be a coating defect?

PE

 

[oldfaithful58]

Emulsion Number 710635 also exhibits this problem. However it is not on every sheet and in my example it is only in a band. This is 4x5in developed in a Jobo using Barry Thornton divided dev with no pre wash. I have seen the same problem with this batch when using D76 with and without pre wash.

 

[PKM-25]

Had you ever considered that it might be a coating defect?

PE

I considered that after the second roll. I guess I could call around to try to find a new emulsion number. Freestyle has given me the same in two orders.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, what I have seen so far posted here looks a lot like coating defects. Look at a sheet of film with this problem, from the base and emulsion side, using incident light. Look at an angle for bumps or craters on the surface. Bumps is a positive indicator of coating defects, craters maybe....

PE

 

[Chazzy]

This thread is giving me misgivings about trying the film.

 

[PKM-25]

This guy does some of the best IR work with this film I have ever seen. No contact info though..

http://theplasticlandscape.com/

and

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eye_of_wally/sets/72157600211354929/

Now how is he putting out all this great work and not getting stuffed by spots?