Efke Frustration--Advice Needed, Please.

Another developer to try with Efke 25 and 100 is PMK pyro. It has image stain which masks the grain structure and good, sharp edges as well.

7:00 for efke 25 at asa 12
10-12:00 for efke 100 at asa 50
A 4 stop push is reason enough to have grain in any film, especially with an acutance developer like rodinal. Slow it down, use a tripod and try again. As Ole has stated, there is no grain to focus on, so an edge or detail in the film's image is what you will have to use for focus. I guess if my eyes were younger I might be able to actually see the grain, but now it just isn't there. I've enlarged a cropped portrait from 35mm to 8x10 print without any grain in the print. Maybe I'm just using the wrong developer, still haven't tried rodinal yet. tim

Denis P. said:

The dev. temperature should be 20 deg. C.

Maga dev. chart states about 4.5 minutes for Efke 25 at dilution of 1+50, so 1+100 would be closer to 9 minutes, instead of 18, which you used - PLUS you used 21 deg. C., which means your dev. time should have been even shorter than that (by at least 20%).

You have overdeveloped the film by waaaay too much - particularly if it's intended for scanning, where you usually aim for "thinner" negative. I wonder how you can see ANYTHING on/through those negs

DISCLAIMER: the above works for me, and the way I work, in my darkroom, with my chemicals, my thermometer, the water I use, etc...
YMMV (your mileage may vary), as they say
Regards,

Denis

Click to expand...

This is why you need to use those times only as a guide and YMMV

I shoot Efke 25 @ 25 and develop in Rodinal 1+100 at 20C for between 18 and 20 minutes, but I use a reduced agitation scheme (15s each minute for first 3 minutes then one inversion every three minutes). The negatives scan lovely. I think Retrophotographics' times for 1+100 are 18 minutes

I've also tried a couple of sheet films in 1+200 for 45 minutes using stand development. This worked out quite well too.

In all cases, you'd have to enlarge it a lot to see any grain.

Paul

Ole said:

Grain structure is very much tighter, while still bitingly
sharp where Rodinal gives "clumpier" grain.
Neofin also gives full film speed or a little more,...

Click to expand...

Have you tried that film in Beutler's? R. W. Anderson
writes in Patrick Dignan's Classic B&W Formulas that he
believes Neofin Blue and Beutler's are essentially the same.
The two then are very similar to FX-1. Beutler's and FX-1
are very easy Home Brew. Ascorbate versions of the
two might yield the ultimate. Dan

Grain structure is very much tighter, while still bitingly

Click to expand...

Neofin Blue and Beutler's are essentially the same

Click to expand...

Both statements are right.
Another developer which works in the same way is AM50 from Amaloco Photochemicals. This improved formula from the AM20 (dated from 1936 !!) is working in the same way as the Neofin Blau from Tetenal.
Perfect for single layer films and delivered in 3x20ml ampuls.

All developers are designed in the same time period, by the way.

Rodinal is also not bad for Efke, but indeed Ole, Neofin Blau & AM50 are better!

Best regards,

Robert

PS. A microscope is easy for this but even with a suitable Peak (I or II) you can see the differences!

There is another factor concerning grain that hasn't been addressed here...reticulation.
I assume that you are being very careful with your chemical and final wash temperatures. While it is okay to have slightly warmer wash temperatures, going from a warmer solution to a colder one invites reticulation which is marked by overly grainy, even clumpy negatives.

Scott Edwards said:

There is another factor concerning grain that hasn't
been addressed here...reticulation.

Click to expand...

And another. Rodinal, reputedly has a very high ph.
I may not work well with an Efke film while, IIRC, it
did work well with Agfa's APX 25. The softer Efke
emulsions?

Beutler did work for Tetanal. The early 60s saw
Crawley's "FX Series". Crawley is still working,
for, I forget. Dan