Effects of development temp on negatives?

[norm.de.plume]

Hi All,

I've been processing my own B&W film for a few years now. I don't have a dedicated space for this and my setup is pretty minimal: my kitchen sink, a change bag, and a big Rubbermaid tub full of reels, chemistry, and bottles.

I also keep my place fairly cool in the winter, and don't use AC in the summer. I don't have any equipment to regulate water temperature out of the faucet, so I keep a few gallons set aside so that when I'm ready to work, the developer, rinse, etc. will all be consistent at room temperature.

I've noticed that "room temperature water" is anywhere between 18-24 C, depending on the season and day. I adjust dev. times accordingly and get good, consistent results that way.

I'm curious though, while nothing's under/over-developed, am I affecting the look (I'd guess grain, if anything?) of the film by developing at temps significantly off from 20 C?

If it matters, I tend to shoot Neopan and Delta 400 in MF, or Neopan and Kentmere/Arista 400 in 35mm.

Thanks,
Andy

 

[EASmithV]

Welcome to APUG!!!

For BW Films, I wouldn't worry too much about temperature. Better a little warm than a little cold though.

 

[Worker 11811]

Here's what I do:

I have a cheap cat box, purchased at WalMart. I adjust my water temperature to 20º C and let it run, slowly, into the box via a rubber hose connected to the faucet. The excess water runs over the side of the tub, into the sink. The idea is that any fluctuations in the incoming water temperature are buffered by the water already in the tub. If I pay attention, I can hold my temperature between 19.5º and 20.5º without too much trouble.

In order to get my chemistry to the right temperature, I measure the temperature of the stock solutions then dilute with warm or cold water to bring the result to the temperature I want. If I miss my target temperature for some reason, I stand my beaker in a pan full of hot or cold water and stir until I have it to the temperature I want.

Once I have everything at the right temperature, I can stand the beakers in the tub of water to make sure they don't fluctuate too much.

It does take a bit of fussing around but, once you get used to it, you should be able to hold your temperature to ± 1º C. without too much problem.

 

[norm.de.plume]

Thanks for your input, guys. The cat box solution is particularly clever, but if I shouldn't expect to see big differences at different temps with time adjusted to similar - uh, EV, I guess - I'll probably just keep doing what I already know.

Randy, I enjoyed looking through your Flickr sets. I spent four years in Boston before landing back here in Pittsburgh.

Andy

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Somewhere recently, here or over at the LF Forum, we recently discussed this very thing.

Your approach of adjusting developing time to ambient temperature is perfectly valid as long as the temps don't go much beyond 24°C. It will not affect graininess to any appreciable degree. Kodak recommends higher developing temperatures for several of their films.

What you need to avoid is temperature shocking the film by transferring it quickly to a solutions that is hotter/colder. This can cause reticulation. As long as the wash water and processing solution temps are the same, you're good to go.

You can use the water-bath method described above as well; that's another approach, but if you are getting good results, just stick with your system

Best,

Doremus

www.DoremusScudder.com

 

[Steve Smith]

Your temperature range is within the manufacturers' usual specifications so changing the time to suit the temperature should be fine.

As for reticulation, try to make it happen on purpose and you will see how tolerant modern films are to changes in temperature.

I think sometimes, a lot of unnecessary fuss is made about keeping temperatures exact. For instance. If the ambient temperature of your room is 16 degrees and you have all of your chemistry at 20 degrees, when you pour out the developer it will be replaced by air at 16 degrees. Film has a very large surface area to volume ratio so it will quickly get to the temperature of the solution/air around it. Put in the stop bath and it quickly goes up to 20 degrees again.

I think your method of matching your chemistry temperature to the room temperature is actually better than keeping it at an elevated (or reduced) temperature.

There is nothing 'magic' about 20 degrees. It was probably chosen as it is a fairly standard comfortable room temperature.


Steve.

 

[markbarendt]

As you have found workable negatives can be made at various temperatures. Different temps, within limits, if everything else stays the same, create a bit more or less contrast; a steeper or flatter curve. It doesn't change the scene info actually on the negative.

The place you'll see the difference is in the printing process, you will just adjust paper grade and enlarger exposure a bit to compensate. Most of us do that anyway, and it is almost a given with roll film, so no biggie.

Tighter development temp control (like better control of camera exposure) can make printing easier, more standard, more predictable, and can improve quality, but it is far from a requirement of the craft.

 

[Photo-gear]

Well, should I understand that the FILM DEVELOPMENT TIME/TEMPERATURE COMPENSATION CHART by Ilford is of no use below 18 and over 24C?

As most of APUG users are aware of, there is this chart:
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2006210208211880.pdf

 

[Ian Grant]

Well, should I understand that the FILM DEVELOPMENT TIME/TEMPERATURE COMPENSATION CHART by Ilford is of no use below 18 and over 24C?

As most of APUG users are aware of, there is this chart:
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2006210208211880.pdf

No it's an indicator but the effect temperature on development time isn't the same with all developers.

I process in Turkey at the ambient water temperature usually 26ºC sometime 27ºC from late Spring (about now) until late Autumn and using the Ilford chart I'd get slight underdevelopment.

There's no difference in grain size at 26/27ºC and 20ºC, but it's more important to keep your temperatures stable, something I find far easier in Turkey working at the ambient temperature compared to the cold of a British winter

When you read of people having increased graininess with Rodinal at higher temperatures that's to do with surface or micro reticulation of the emulsion layercaused by the softening of the emulsion by the Hydroxide in the developer alongside poor temperature control. Kodak differentiate between film grain size and the apparent Graininess of prints (or scans).

Ian

 

[markbarendt]

Well, should I understand that the FILM DEVELOPMENT TIME/TEMPERATURE COMPENSATION CHART by Ilford is of no use below 18 and over 24C?

As most of APUG users are aware of, there is this chart:
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2006210208211880.pdf

Handy chart, thanks!