Edward Weston's Dark Rich Chocolate/Black Mid-Dark tones

[noseoil]

Anyone who gets to Tucson can see some of his prints at the Center for Creative Photography (the University of Arizona). Call in advace and they will allow a private viewing of a small selection of his prints. Well worth the effort in time if you will be here. Please let me know if you will be in town, as I am always ready to see his prints. Most of his negatives are at the CCP, along with many of his prints. tim

 

[avandesande]

I was amazed by the true black, with the tones just off of black having a slight brown to them. One print in particular sticks in my mind (this was the lifework exhibition) and was one of his dune photos .

I believe that by learning to duplicate what the masters I admire did I will more quickly find my own look.

He used a great many different papers and got a great many different tones. The best tones, to my eye, are an almost golden color, just about impossible to describe. Truly unique. I also think that the look of his prints had a lot to do with the cadmium which was put in the paper back then, and that we'll never duplicate that look. Would we really want to do so?

Why not strive for your own tone? When I hit one just right I'm thrilled. Certain prints of mine have a unique tone which is quite distinctive and which brand them as my own.

 

[c6h6o3]

I believe that by learning to duplicate what the masters I admire did I will more quickly find my own look.

I think you'll have to create your own paper emulsion to do that with Weston's work.

 

[David Brown]

Anyone who gets to Tucson can see some of his prints at the Center for Creative Photography (the University of Arizona). Call in advace and they will allow a private viewing of a small selection of his prints. Well worth the effort in time if you will be here. Please let me know if you will be in town, as I am always ready to see his prints. Most of his negatives are at the CCP, along with many of his prints. tim

I've been there and done this. I don't recall noticing a warm tone, but (like some other posters) I did notice how dark they were compared to most reproductions. It could have been the controlled lighting where the CCP lets you view them.

Still, as with anyone else, seeing the real thing is no comparison to reproductions.

Cheers, y'all.

David

 

[rhphoto]

When Cole Weston was printing his dad's negatives in the 70s and 80s, he was using Ilford Ilfobrom, and later Ilford Galerie. His developer was Amidol, and sometimes he toned lightly with selenium. Edward Weston might have used Azo, I don't know the exact years this would have been, but as was mentioned previously, Haloid was one, and the first silver paper he used was probably Velour Black, as per his journal entry form Jan. 27, 1932. To my knowledge, Velour Black was not a silver chloride paper, but correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, If you want to get close to EW's tone and scale from that era, you might try the Galerie (still available??) and amidol. Probably would help if it's EW's formula too, which has a higher percentage of amidol than most, and also incorporates some benzotriazole.

 

[Wayne]

Are you sure about the toning? The article on Cole Weston's EW prints in the book Darkroom 2 (1978) says no toner is used. Cole mentioned Ilfobrom as being closest to Haloid in tone.

 

[c6h6o3]

When Cole Weston was printing his dad's negatives in the 70s and 80s, he was using Ilford Ilfobrom, and later Ilford Galerie.

That's why those prints don't hold a candle to his father's. Not even close.

 

[avandesande]

Weston mentions chlorbromide papers at one time in his daybooks. The only thing really constant with EW's printing was amidol. I would think that this would be the place to start.

 

[rhphoto]

Are you sure about the toning? The article on Cole Weston's EW prints in the book Darkroom 2 (1978) says no toner is used. Cole mentioned Ilfobrom as being closest to Haloid in tone.

You are probably right. I think I confused EW with Brett, who did sometimes tone Ilfobrom, before he switched to Seagull. One other thing about EW's use of amidol is that he developed the prints with an egg timer, which would be three minutes. Development time is part of determining print color, and I think some amidol users develop for less time. Anyway, just thought I would mention that.

 

[Wayne]

Weston mentions chlorbromide papers at one time in his daybooks. The only thing really constant with EW's printing was amidol. I would think that this would be the place to start.

I disagree. I think the place to start would be to make negatives like his, before anything else. Without that you are probably wasting your time, unless tone is the only thing you are looking to replicate.

 

[avandesande]

That's pretty much what this thread is about.

unless tone is the only thing you are looking to replicate.

 

[Wayne]

That's pretty much what this thread is about.

Thats true. I wonder though, if the negative doesnt play a small role in the final image tone. I have shot identical sheets of FP4+ and HP5+ at times, and sometimes I've thought that I noticed slight tone dfference on warmtone paper. Maybe it was just my imagination though, and I'm sure the difference is minimal if present at all.

 

[avandesande]

I agree. My impression of color can change simply by how heavily I print it on the same paper.
The thing that we are talking about is pretty unique. You would have to see the prints to appreciate it.

 

[rhphoto]

unless tone is the only thing you are looking to replicate.

In my experience, the peculiarity of a given negative affects the tone, even with the same paper/developer. I suppose it has to do with the characteristic curve you create, and how the scale of tones and range of densities is perceived visually, not just sensitometrically. I wonder what would happen if you could actually print the original "Pepper #30" negative, using a high quality modern bromide paper, and then see what kind of tones you got compared to your own negatives using the same paper.