Eco Pro Chemistry

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Lam-Bartll

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Hello!
I'm a huge fan of Ilford chemistry but I'm trying to look into someways to save money while being able to continue printing photos in the darkroom and one brand I'm interested in is Eco Pro; has anyone here ever used any of their stuff? What were your thoughts?

Currently my chemistry setup is DDX for film and Ilford multigrade for paper and their standard rapid fixer and stop so I'm interested in Eco Pro's darkroom chemistry and maybe their XTOL clone. It looks like Eco Pro is cheaper than the Ilford stuff and it's supposedly better for the environment too. I'd love to know the community's thoughts.

Thanks!
 

btaylor

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I’ve used a lot of their stuff as it is distributed through Freestyle, which is local to me. I am also a bit of a tightwad and have used the bargains from Freestyle for more than 50 years. The Eco Pro stuff is good, never failed me.
 

loccdor

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I've heard good things about Eco Pro / Legacy Pro products and have some of the wetting agent to try after my other bottle is depleted.

I think the environmental stuff is most likely just branding but everyone likes a good value-for-money proposition.

However, I'm a mostly HC-110 guy and I never found this developer or others like Rodinal to be a very large expense compared to the film itself.
 
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MattKing

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FWIW, I expect it is actually manufactured by Photo Systems, who are now the manufacturer and licensee for Kodak branded photo chemistry, and may be manufacturing some of the Ilford stuff as well.
 

blee1996

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I used to use DD-X, and now I replaced it with Clayton F76+ (also sold as Arista Premium Liquid film developer). F76+ is much cheaper than DD-X and in my humble opinion works just as well. So this could be another option.
 

johnwwyatt

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I completely switched from DDX to LegacyPro a few years ago and am very happy. I shoot mainly Ilford HP5 and use LP 110 to develop which gives me nice contrasty negatives that I like for lith printing. You can also get it at B&H for a good price.
 

btaylor

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I've heard good things about Eco Pro / Legacy Pro products and have some of the wetting agent to try after my other bottle is depleted.

I think the environmental stuff is most likely just branding but everyone likes a good value-for-money proposition.

However, I'm a mostly HC-110 guy and I never found this developer or others like Rodinal to be a very large expense compared to the film itself.

True, developer costs are generally minimal per roll or sheet. LegacyPro L110 performs identically to Kodak HC110 (same time, dilutions) at considerably lower cost. I would guess that both the Kodak and LegacyPro products are likely identical now that Photo Systems is manufacturing both.
 

koraks

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ways to save money
When printing, there are numerous ways to save money:
* Print less. Reduce number of test/work prints and try to get to the final print quicker.
* Use smaller test strips (may work counter to no. 1).
* Be more selective in what you print.
* Print at a smaller size.
* Use a cheaper paper (e.g. RC instead of fiber, Foma instead of Ilford).

A simple fact of life is that chemistry consumption isn't a major cost driver in the darkroom unless you have an exceptionally expensive taste in chemistry, or you're being exceptionally wasteful. The former is alleviated by sticking to the lower- and mid-tier brands, price-wise (quality-wise, they're usually still excellent). The latter can be managed by e.g. using flat-bottomed trays and using a replenished developer and two-bath fixing so you don't have to mix everything fresh every time you do a session and you only have to replenish/replace what actually needs to be replenished/replaced.

If you're looking to further cut chemistry cost, the most obvious way is to start mixing your own chemistry from dry powders. This also comes with the advantage that you can experiment to your heart's content with different formula using a fairly basic set of 6-8 chemicals, which can be bought at a low cost.

One note about the 'eco' in product names - it's often unclear what this refers to. Are they referring to 'economic', or 'eco-friendly'? Who's to say? The real question is ultimately about things like the composition of the chemistry and its capacity (which affects efficiency, of course). In developers, the 'eco' label often refers to a developer that's based on a PC-backbone: phenidone + vitamin C/ascorbate as the main (sole) developing agents. Ascorbate is considered eco-friendly by many because it's a naturally occurring substance (although this is technically true for hydroquinone as well). In any case, the environmental load of discarded ascorbate is effectively a non-issue, which likely is the main cause for the 'eco' labeling. The story behind phenidone (or its several variants) is that it's very efficient; only a tiny bit is needed to get the job done, which reduces both cost and environmental load. The drawback of these PC developers is that they're fairly unstable and often offer reduced shelf and esp. tray life compared to some of the more classic developers. The net result can be that the actual environmental load and/or economic cost might end up higher for an 'eco' developer if compared to an alternative that can be used more efficienty, but is not necessarily 'eco' in its composition (e.g. a replenished ID62, which I use, and which involves extremely little waste).

For fixer & stop bath, the 'eco' thing is even more murky; it's debatable at what point an 'eco' adjective can be considered meaningful when applied to these products. Eco chemistry (both developers and fixers) might avoid the use of borates - but there are plenty of non-'eco' products that do the same. Stop bath in its essence is rarely an eco concern (either in an economic or environmental sense), and with fixer, the main concern is the silver that dissolves in the used fixer - and that happens regardless if those three letters are on the bottle of the product...

All this is not intended to brush aside the positive comments on users of these products - they work, and if people like them, so much the better. I only intend to provide a bit of background (and criticism) to that 'eco' label. There's a story behind it, and depending on what you're looking for, you may have to dig into that story to make the best choice. But in that sense, I stick with my initial comments, and focus on where the real costs are - i.e. the paper (or the film).
 
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Lam-Bartll

Lam-Bartll

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When printing, there are numerous ways to save money:
* Print less. Reduce number of test/work prints and try to get to the final print quicker.
* Use smaller test strips (may work counter to no. 1).
* Be more selective in what you print.
* Print at a smaller size.
* Use a cheaper paper (e.g. RC instead of fiber, Foma instead of Ilford).

Thanks for the reply! I only print maybe once a month and I'll only work on one or two negatives at a time, so my printing amount is not very large. I'm probably a little too selective in what I print sometimes, my girlfriend says I'm too harsh on my own work haha

However, I am a waster of test strips (normally I use 1" strips but I normally use 2 or 3 per print).

I am curious about cheaper paper, I've always been an Ilford MG RC guy (I know it's sacrilegious but I just don't have the ability to do FB in my current space) and I've really loved their papers but how are the cheaper competition? Any thoughts on Kentmere or Foma?
 
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