ECN2 process with jobo

christianmic · Jun 6, 2022

Hello I saw that the kit 1 litre of Bellini can develop up to 12 rolls of film. I have a CPE2 that accept 4 rolls each time. If I divide the litre by 2, I can have two half a litre of product, do you think that:
1) develop strictly 12 films, I have to use the tank only for 3 films reusing developer only one time
2) develop up to 16 films (using the tank for 4 films in two steps
3) develop only 8 films (4 with half a litre and 4 with the other half)
4) develop strictly 12 films, first 4 with half a litre (3:00 mins), second 4 films (3:00 mins) with the second litre, then mix the used developer of the first 2 batch and use half a litre of this chemical to develop other 4 films (3:30 mins)
5) develop 3 films (3:00 mins) with half a litre, then other 3 films (3:00 mins) with the other fresh half a litre, then mix the used Develop! chemical and split in two half a litre and develop each time for 3:30 mins

brbo · Jun 6, 2022

1) for optimal result
or
6) develop in any batches you want (1, 2, 3 or 4 rolls at a time) and extend* the next batch development time according to the number of rolls processed

* The question is how much to extend the time for every roll processed. For example, Cinestill recommends increasing development time by 3% when you are working with 1L of solution for every processed roll (I don't think Bellini gives any information about that). Cinestill is probably the most home user oriented supplier for ECN-2 developer and I'd expect that they arrived at their numbers by actually testing their product in the manner that home users are most likely to use it. Of course, Bellini is not the same as Cinestill ECN-2 developer but their numbers should at least provide a good starting point.

christianmic · Jun 6, 2022

brbo said:
1) for optimal result
or
5) develop in any batches you want (1, 2, 3 or 4 rolls at a time) and extend* the next batch development time according to the number of rolls processed

* The question is how much to extend the time for every roll processed. For example, Cinestill recommends increasing development time by 3% when you are working with 1L of solution for every processed roll (I don't think Bellini gives any information about that). Cinestill is probably the most home user oriented supplier for ECN-2 developer and I'd expect that they arrived at their numbers by actually testing their product in the manner that home users are most likely to use it. Of course, Bellini is not the same as Cinestill ECN-2 developer but their numbers should at least provide a good starting point.

I just spoke with Bellini technician, and he suggested to do divide by two half a litre and do with the first half a litre 3 films (at 3:00mins) + 3 films (at 3:30mins) without mix the two half a litre. and with the second half a litre 3 films (at 3:00mins) + 3 films (at 3:30mins)

brbo · Jun 6, 2022

That is exactly the same as Cinestill recommendation (extending the time 6% per roll if you are using 500ml of working solution). Good to have same information from two different sources.

Radost · Feb 22, 2024

I have been single use JOBO processing. wondering if I am just wasting chems

koraks · Feb 23, 2024

Radost said:
wondering if I am just wasting chems

Well, at least we waste together. I use ECN2 developer one shot, only. It's cheap when mixed from bulk chemicals, so it doesn't bother me.

Radost · Feb 23, 2024

koraks said:
Well, at least we waste together. I use ECN2 developer one shot, only. It's cheap when mixed from bulk chemicals, so it doesn't bother me.

I remember you or somebody else saying that they reuse the bleach but one shot the dev and the fixer.
I do reuse the fixer.
I also go from Ecn-2 to C41 bleach right away without a stop.
Can You please share your workflow?

koraks · Feb 23, 2024

Radost said:
Can You please share your workflow?

Sure:

Optional tempering/pre-rinse bath to bring tank up to temperature. 2 minutes with 41C tap water.
Development in home-made ECN2 developer; 3:45 to 4:00 at 41C. I develop longer to get the right contrast for optical RA4 printing.
Acetic acid (ca. 0.5%) stop bath.
C41 bleach; Fuji rapid access; 3-4 minutes. Re-used and replenished according to manufacturer's specifications.
C41 fix; Fuji rapid access, 3-4 minutes. Used one shot.

With remjet-backed film, I will then take a tray of lukewarm water with some handsoap or sodium carbonate dissolved in it. Put the reel with the film still on in the water and start unspooling it while brushing off the remjet with a soft brush. Bits of remjet that stick to the emulsion side I rub off with my wet fingers. Vision3 film takes a lot of rubbing without scratching; the emulsion is very tough.

Then wash under a running tap, both sides. Hang up, wipe off the shiny side with a paper towel and let dry. I generally don't use a final bath/conditioner/stabilizer with my Vision3 film because the archival stability doesn't concern me much for my snapshots. For optimal permanence, it doesn't hurt to do a final bath of demineralized water with a few drops of formalin added to it. Soak for a minute and hang up to dry.

Radost · Feb 23, 2024

Thank You so much. Screen shot saved it.
I wonder about the stop bath. My usual C41 Fuji hunt process I go from dev to bleach without stop.
Also I don’t think Fuji hunt has replenishment data. Do you know if it is the same formula as fuji hunt bleach?

koraks · Feb 23, 2024

The stop bath is not really needed when using a properly buffered, acidic bleach. I use it mostly to prevent my bleach pH rising in case I'm sloppy with replenishment (which I tend to be...)

Radost said:
Also I don’t think Fuji hunt has replenishment data.

Depends on the chemistry you use. Not for the small-scale home-oriented kits, but for all their lab chemistry (which is the vast majority of what they make), they have replenishment data in the technical bulletins.

Radost said:
Do you know if it is the same formula as fuji hunt bleach?

There are several types of Fuji Hunt bleach, but I think they are very similar in the end. Hunt is just the name of the chemical company they acquired decades ago; the Fuji Hunt plant is located in Sint Niklaas, Belgium, and it's the main manufacturer of color chemistry (and a host of other products) for the European market. Their product range is quite varied and changes from time to time. For information on the chemistry you use, it's best to take the product number (a 6-figure code usually starting with '9') and google that. You should find some product notices and technical bulletins that way.

Radost · Feb 23, 2024

koraks said:
The stop bath is not really needed when using a properly buffered, acidic bleach. I use it mostly to prevent my bleach pH rising in case I'm sloppy with replenishment (which I tend to be...)

Depends on the chemistry you use. Not for the small-scale home-oriented kits, but for all their lab chemistry (which is the vast majority of what they make), they have replenishment data in the technical bulletins.

There are several types of Fuji Hunt bleach, but I think they are very similar in the end. Hunt is just the name of the chemical company they acquired decades ago; the Fuji Hunt plant is located in Sint Niklaas, Belgium, and it's the main manufacturer of color chemistry (and a host of other products) for the European market. Their product range is quite varied and changes from time to time. For information on the chemistry you use, it's best to take the product number (a 6-figure code usually starting with '9') and google that. You should find some product notices and technical bulletins that way.

Thank you. As usual great advice.
I will use it with stop tomorrow.

lamerko · Feb 23, 2024

Radost said:
I remember you or somebody else saying that they reuse the bleach but one shot the dev and the fixer.
I do reuse the fixer.
I also go from Ecn-2 to C41 bleach right away without a stop.
Can You please share your workflow?

I mix ECN-2 developer, but I skip the hard to find ingredients. I prepare 500ml of working solution, which I save for reuse if necessary in a week or two. If it stays for a long time - I throw it away. I process a maximum of four 135/36 films in 500 ml. I always use a stop bath (sulfuric acid) and wash - until recently I used ferricyanide bleach and washing was a required step. Now I have started using C-41 bleach with replenishment - for this reason I try not to contaminate it with developer - I wash well after the stop bath. I can't say what the capacity will be with replenishment, but I guess it will do 20 on the 135/36 film before replacement is required. The fixer has a large capacity, 10 films per 500 ml.

koraks · Feb 23, 2024

Radost said:
Thank you. As usual great advice.
I will use it with stop tomorrow.

Great, you're welcome.

lamerko said:
I mix ECN-2 developer, but I skip the hard to find ingredients.

Yeah, good addition; I skip them too and just use sulfite, carbonate, bicarbonate, potassium bromide and CD3. I've not tried keeping it around as long as you have; I think I would add a little hydroxylamine sulfate if I would want to preserve the developer.

lamerko · Feb 23, 2024

koraks said:
I've not tried keeping it around as long as you have; I think I would add a little hydroxylamine sulfate if I would want to preserve the developer.

To be honest, I'm really surprised at how stable this preservative-free developer actually is in a sealed PET bottle. Two weeks practically does not affect him, as long as the bottle is closed tightly, without air.

koraks · Feb 23, 2024

It's surprising, indeed! And convenient, too, because it means you can safely make it a few days in advance. I might end up doing that from time to time.

Radost · Feb 23, 2024

I rather mix as I go.

Radost · Feb 23, 2024

Another note. I do a pre bath per Kodak’s formula.
And it works great. 10 sec pre bath no agitation.
After that a good shake and everything comes out with the first water.
After that there is zero Remjet.

lamerko · Feb 23, 2024

Radost said:
Another note. I do a pre bath per Kodak’s formula.
And it works great. 10 sec pre bath no agitation.
After that a good shake and everything comes out with the first water.
After that there is zero Remjet.

I also do a PB-2 pre-bath. It removes quite a bit of the remjet, but not all of it. Only with the Fuji films does all the remjet fall off, but with the Kodak I end up having to manually peel off the residue.

Radost · Feb 23, 2024

lamerko said:
I also do a PB-2 pre-bath. It removes quite a bit of the remjet, but not all of it. Only with the Fuji films does all the remjet fall off, but with the Kodak I end up having to manually peel off the residue.

Which formula?
I use this one

Before when I used the other formula there was alway a little left.
With this one there is nothing left.’

koraks · Feb 23, 2024

Radost said:
After that there is zero Remjet.

Is this on Visoon3 film? I understand Fuji Eternal would come out pretty clean. Visoon3 I've never managed to clean entirely with a prebath and lots of vigorous shaking. It always required a wipe down afterwards. Maybe 95% of the remjet would be gone, but the 5% still posed a problem when enlarging. That's why I gave up on the remjet bath; if I need to manually clean it anyway, might as well do it in a single step. So far, that works quite well for me.

lamerko · Feb 23, 2024

Radost said:
Which formula?
I use this one
View attachment 363707

Before when I used the other formula there was alway a little left.
With this one there is nothing left.’

Same formula. This clears a very large part, but a very thin layer remains, which cannot be removed without mechanical action. Even in the description of the commercial equipment there is an explanation of how to remove the remjet - Module 2 (H2402) - Equipment and Procedures.

Radost · Feb 23, 2024

What temperature do you use for the prebath??
Also do you only get black carbon only the first violent shake wash?

Radost · Feb 23, 2024

koraks said:
Is this on Visoon3 film? I understand Fuji Eternal would come out pretty clean. Visoon3 I've never managed to clean entirely with a prebath and lots of vigorous shaking. It always required a wipe down afterwards. Maybe 95% of the remjet would be gone, but the 5% still posed a problem when enlarging. That's why I gave up on the remjet bath; if I need to manually clean it anyway, might as well do it in a single step. So far, that works quite well for me.

Mostly 250D. Very hard desert water wash might have to do with it.
Also I am very strict on the pre bath temperature and even wash.
When I did not use pre bath the developer would take 95% of it.
will post some pictures.

Radost · Feb 23, 2024

koraks said:
I

Here is what comes after.
2 is the second wash after the carbon comes out the first shake.
No carbon at all.

lamerko · Feb 23, 2024

I use the pre-bath at about 30 degrees Celsius, but I don't temperature control it - it always works. The chemistry itself does not pollute - I return it relatively free of impurities. During the water flush, I strongly agitate the tank, the first water comes out completely black, the next two - with decreasing. After the third water bath, there are only pink dyes, no Remjet particles.
The one time I skipped the pre-bath, the developer had turned almost black, heavily saturated with Remjet particles. Worse, for some reason the Remjet stuck to the tank's spirals - extremely unpleasant. If I use a preliminary bath, the contamination of the spirals is many times less and they are easy to clean. I have no explanation why.

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